[Issue ON] Lee Jae-myung's election law 1st trial suspended prison sentence... "I will appeal"

■ Host: Youngsoo Kim Anchor, Lee Harin Anchor
■ Starring: Lawyer Lim Joo-hye

* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information. Please specify [YTN NewsON] when quoting.

[Anchor]
I've been focusing on delivering it right after the ruling came out. Let me analyze the results of the first trial of Lee Jae-myung's violation of the Public Official Election Act in detail. I will be with lawyer Lim Joo-hye. Please come in. I got a prison sentence in the first trial. First of all, there were many reactions that the responses of many lawyers came out higher than expected. Does lawyer Lim feel the same way?

[Lim Joo-hye]
One year in prison and two years of probation. First of all, in this case, the problem now is that it affected the election by intentionally disclosing false information under the Public Official Election Act. There was a sentencing standard in place. The prosecution had demanded two years in prison, which could be considered the highest sentence in terms of sentencing standards, considering the weighting factor. According to the original sentencing criteria, when there is a basic sentence and there is a weighting factor, a weighting factor is added, whereas when there is a reason to reduce the sentence, the court makes a little reduction and makes a judgment. In this case, representative Lee Jae-myung consistently pleaded not guilty.

Therefore, he claimed that the falsehood was not a false fact and that it was not a crime because he did not intend to affect the election, but the court said this with the intention of affecting the election and that this was a false fact. I saw it as guilty. Therefore, it seems that the fact that Representative Lee Jae-myung pleaded not guilty and there was no recognition or reflection on the crime charges was inevitably a aggravating factor. Therefore, considering the weighting factor, if there was at least a weighting factor according to the sentencing criteria, there was a part that could be reduced from 8 months to 2 years in prison. The fine is 5 to 10 million won. So, if this part was recognized, it could even lead to a sentence in which the election of the parliamentary seat, which was actually a problem, was invalidated.

However, there were speculations that Lee Jae-myung may not be judged as a weighting factor even if he denies that I did it intentionally because it is a matter related to some subjective perception, but the court took into account the weighting factor because it clearly had to influence the election and intentionally lied about the reasons that could affect the people's right to know, especially in terms of the importance of the people's right to know in the election, and the prosecution demanded two years in prison, but it can be assessed that the prosecution gave one year of imprisonment and two years of probation.

Even in the legal profession, the prevailing opinion was that it was difficult to guess or predict in this regard. This is because unlike other cases, depending on whether the fine exceeds 1 million won or not, if the fine is about 800,000 won, it is difficult to predict whether Lee Jae-myung won or not, and it was difficult to predict how much of the sentence would be given depending on how the court viewed the case. The impact is likely to be significant because there has been a suspended sentence of fine or higher.

[Anchor]
There were two charges of contending in today's trial. These are two things: I didn't know the late Director Kim Moon-ki, and I was threatened by the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport. First of all, Lee Jae-myung's representative has continued to argue that knowing and not knowing people is a subjective domain, not an area for judicial judgment. Some of the charges were found guilty and some not guilty.

[Lim Joo-hye]
I think you can see it like that. Therefore, representative Lee Jae-myung has consistently argued that it is a matter of subjective perception that I know or do not know someone. And I've argued that this is a statement that has nothing to do with the election. However, among these remarks, we need to divide them into two. Regarding the part that he did not know this person, the court also accepted Lee Jae-myung's argument. It can be a matter of subjective perception. You might not actually remember him.

Even if there was a relationship, I thought it was possible to state that I don't remember it in this situation, but I never played golf with this person, and regarding the specific denial of the act of friendship, I admitted that I had never played golf with Kim Moon-ki, the former chief of staff, because pictures of him already taken together or accompanying him on a long business trip were submitted as evidence. However, it was recognized that what I said I didn't know was a subjective area that Lee Jae-myung's representative could say he did not know even if he was a subordinate employee and worked together.

[Anchor]
It is false to say that he has never played golf. In fact, the issue was that I knew or did not know at first, but whether or not I played golf became an issue.

[Lim Joo-hye]
I think I can look at it a little differently. As you said, whether I knew someone or not, I knew this person, but I forgot about it, or I knew it before, but I was confused whether it was him or not. There may be parts such as subjective perceptions, so in a way, the fact that I played golf with someone is based on more specific facts.

Therefore, since representative Lee Jae-myung has consistently brought some legal issue of subjective perception, the court seems to have recognized that the statement on whether or not he played golf, which can be seen as a more specific fact, is false and that this could have affected the election in the end.

[Anchor]
There's a breaking news. The Democratic Party of Korea has not made an official position since the first trial ruling of representative Lee Jae-myung. News reports that an emergency supreme council meeting will be held at 5 p.m., 10 minutes later, and an official statement will be made after the supreme council. I'll give it to you again. This is what Democratic Party spokesman Cho Seung-rae revealed. Breaking news that the Democratic Party is scheduled to hold an emergency supreme council at 5 p.m. After the highest ranking, Lee Jae-myung's official position will be announced today regarding the first trial. As soon as the Democratic Party's official position is announced, we will connect and listen to it. Lawyer Lim, then Kim Moon-ki is legally innocent of not knowing. But it's a violation of the Public Official Election Act, is this how you see it?

[Lim Joo-hye]
In the end, the statement that he did not play golf because of the statement itself was considered a false fact, so even in this case, the court said that this was a false fact and affected the election, so I think it can be summarized like this.

[Anchor]
Let's also look at another controversial statement. This is what I said at the parliamentary audit of Gyeonggi-do Province. The content is that Baekhyun-dong was threatened by the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport and increased the use of the site, but most of these charges were found guilty, right?

[Lim Joo-hye]
That's right. In fact, I think it can be seen in the same context. Regarding the change of Baekhyun-dong's use site, it was his will, not Lee Jae-myung's will, but the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport threatened, that is, pressure, which was the problem. Both sides have submitted evidence. At that time, an official letter from the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport was submitted, and the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport argued that this was simply a request for cooperation, not any pressure or intimidation. I think the court actually accepted this argument.

In fact, representative Lee Jae-myung's side also turned to some positions at the final hearing and expressed that this was a threat, but from my point of view, pressure, that is, psychologically feeling very burdened, is a little stronger threat. But this is also a subjective evaluation that I was pressured and that I was threatened by some kind of threat. That's why it's hard to see this as a false fact. And the court argued that it could not affect the election, but this could also be a problem with the publication of false information given that the issue of the Baekhyun-dong site was at issue in the election, especially in the presidential election at the time, and whether or not Lee Jae-myung was involved in it could have a profound impact on the election.

[Anchor]
But now that you have expressed your willingness to appeal, isn't there going to be the same legal dispute over the same issue in the second trial? But what do you think CEO Lee Jae-myung will emphasize more?

[Lim Joo-hye]
I always go to the appeals court. And of course, it seems that there is no choice but to go to the Supreme Court and appeal. In this regard, the first trial took two years and two months. Of course, the trial has been this long because of the health problems of representative Lee Jae-myung and the process of changing the court, but it took this much time because both sides made a general offensive. There were more than 50 witnesses alone. A lot of things have already been argued with each other on various issues, and parts that can be submitted as evidence seem to have been submitted.

Therefore, in the second trial, it may be difficult for both sides to present new evidence. However, it was still not such a legal review of subjective perception or it was not enough to affect the election. The first trial focused very much on the impact of broadcasting. I thought that this kind of ripple effect was influenced by the publication of false information. It is possible to predict that representative Lee Jae-myung will focus on refuting this part.

[Anchor]
However, CEO Lee Jae-myung prepared and deliberately admitted related remarks at the presiding judge. What does this mean?

[Lim Joo-hye]
I acknowledged it in advance and admitted it intentionally.

[Anchor]
According to the news report, representative Lee Jae-myung prepared related remarks in advance and admitted his intention.

[Lim Joo-hye]
I think you acknowledged the intention. Some related remarks were prepared in advance. So, CEO Lee Jae-myung's position as a representative when dealing with a certain broadcast or a certain media. And at that time, he was not only serving as a representative, but also as a candidate. Therefore, I think it can be judged that this seems to have thoroughly answered the question first rather than improvising or speaking as it comes to mind.

[Anchor]
If you look at the explanatory data of the court about that, it is called a panel at the time of Baekhyun-dong's remarks in this case. Considering that you have prepared something like that, it is confirmed that intentionality is recognized. I'll let you know when more details come in. And remarks made at the parliamentary audit are subject to immunity. This was also the argument of representative Lee Jae-myung, but the prosecution said that the purpose of the election was clear and influenced the victory. Like this, the prosecution argued. In the end, the court accepted the prosecution's argument, right?

[Lim Joo-hye]
That's right. The provisions that Lee Jae-myung's representative insisted on are in Article 9 of the National Assembly Testimony Appraisal Act. Therefore, when I come to the National Assembly and make a statement as a witness or reference, it contains the content that I should not be subjected to any disadvantageous disposition because of my statement, but representative Lee Jae-myung has argued that the disadvantageous punishment includes criminal punishment. However, considering the purpose of this article, it seems that I should not restrict my remarks according to the truth and conscience. Therefore, representative Lee Jae-myung's argument was rejected. This statement made through the parliamentary audit and this statement related to the change in the purpose of Baekhyun-dong was a very important statement that could affect the election. This point seems to have been highlighted.

[Anchor]
There's another news report. They said they would decide whether to appeal or not after reviewing the ruling closely. The prosecution asked for a two-year prison sentence. And now that you have one year in prison and two years of probation, do you think the prosecution will appeal?

[Lim Joo-hye]
Appeals appear to be scheduled for both sides. I think the prosecution will be right in a ruling that can be seen as their victory. In the case of Kim Hye-kyung's ruling yesterday, the prosecution demanded a fine of 3 million won, and the actual court's judgment was fined 1.5 million won, which is about half of his. In view of this, it is common for the sentence to be slightly lower than the original prosecution's sentence, but anyway, as the prosecution is now engaged in an all-out war, both sides are scheduled to appeal.

[Anchor]
Both the prosecution and representative Lee said an appeal was scheduled. Even if only one of them appeals, the appeal will continue. Then, if it is confirmed by going to the Supreme Court, the impact is important now, but if it is suspended, the right to run for election will be deprived for 10 years?

[Lim Joo-hye]
Once a fine of more than 1 million won is sentenced in connection with the violation of the Public Official Election Act, the parliamentary seat will be deprived and the right to run for five years will be deprived. The suspended sentence has come out. If a suspended sentence is sentenced, the right to run for election can be deprived for 10 years. It's been 10 years since you were confirmed, so this part seems to be meaningful as well. However, for CEO Lee Jae-myung, the penalty of 1 million won now seems to have been a very important point in determining his position. As long as the sentence exceeds the 1 million won fine, if you don't fight for innocence, your candidacy in the next presidential election will be uncertain, whether you get 1 million won or you get a suspended prison sentence.

Another important part is the loss of parliamentary seats, and if the right to run for election is deprived, the party membership will be lost, which could be a problem for the representative position itself. And another thing, many issues are emerging now, but during the presidential election, the Democratic Party of Korea received compensation for election expenses with the national treasury, which is more than 40 billion won. However, if Representative Lee Jae-myung was sentenced to more than 1 million won for violating the election law at the time, the Democratic Party of Korea was in a situation where it had to return the amount, which had been preserved by the national treasury, so this is a very important ruling for the Democratic Party.

[Anchor]
Considering the sentencing criteria this time, the basic principle of the crime of publicizing false information for the purpose of election is less than 10 months in prison or a fine of 2 million won to 8 million won, so can this be considered as aggravated?

[Lim Joo-hye]
I think you can see it like that. Since he was sentenced to one year in prison, it can be considered that way, but as I said earlier, Lee Jae-myung's side continued to claim not guilty of all of this crime. When we make a sentence, these are actually taken into account when we acknowledge and reflect on what I did wrong and mention about prevention of recurrence, but these are not taken into account, so it can be said that the weight was actually taken into account. The court seems to have judged that the nature of the crime is not good for the attempt to harm the fairness of the election by focusing very much on the fairness of the election.

[Anchor]
The final ruling will be important for any sentence, but as you mentioned earlier, the results of the first trial came out in two years and two months. So how long will it take for the Supreme Court to decide? In principle, it should come out in three months, three months, so what do you expect?

[Lim Joo-hye]
In principle, according to the guidelines, it may be right that the Supreme Court should be sentenced within the next three months or three months and six months, but there are no punishment or compulsory regulations if this is not followed. However, just because it took more than two years from the first trial, I don't think it will take two years for the second trial and two years for the third trial, a total of six years. Because, as I said earlier, there has already been so much evidence submitted in the first trial and there has already been a fierce legal battle between the two sides, so the appeals court is expected to be completed in a much shorter period than the first trial. The Supreme Court also believes that the case may be confirmed sooner than expected because it came out earlier than we expected.

[Anchor]
The results of Lee Jae-myung's first trial were sentenced to one year in prison and two years of probation. Initially, the Democratic Party continued to plead not guilty. But do you think that continuing to plead not guilty has rather affected the sentence of this high?

[Lim Joo-hye]
You can do that. The court is false in this regard. And in a situation where representative Lee Jae-myung believes that there is a certain subjective perception, if he does not admit this at all, it seems that it can act sufficiently as a weighting factor. However, from the standpoint of representative Lee Jae-myung, it was not possible to admit some guilt or say that he/she made a statement after recognizing false facts. That's why I think both sides made reasonable arguments from the standpoint of both sides.

[Anchor]
After the ruling was made ahead of today's ruling, there are still rallies of progressive and conservative supporters near the court. If the video is ready, it would be nice to show it to you. However, the ruling party is pointing out that the rally is a violation of the Political Fund Act, and of course, there are refutations within the Democratic Party. What's the issue?

[Lim Joo-hye]
The reason why this is a problem is that what we often talk about is that the mobilization ordinance has just been issued. So, many people will flock to the court where the trial will be held today, and some organizations will pay for it in the process, so we will buy you a plane ticket, so gather in Seoul, and this could be a problem. Some pointed out that this part could be a problem for providing money or other items. What is the source of the funds. Or, whether it was just a donation from each other, or whether there was anything illegal, this part may require more judgment or interpretation of authority by the Election Commission.

[Anchor]
We're showing both sides of a liberal and conservative rally in front of the court on the screen. There was also a crash. There is also news that A, a man accused of throwing shoes at representative Lee Jae-myung, who attended the first trial of the election law violation today, has been arrested. Please show me when the painting is ready. It's around 2 p.m. today. This is the view in front of the Seoul Central District Court. You can see it right now. The news screen reports that a man suspected of throwing a pair of sneakers toward representative Lee Jae-myung, who enters the trial, has been arrested. Fortunately, it was investigated that CEO Lee was not injured. The police are currently investigating the case.

[Anchor]
Today, the first trial court ruled on whether or not he knew or did not know the late Director Kim Moon-ki and whether or not he played golf. That part was guilty. In that regard, this was an interview with Channel A. It was about the interview with CEO Lee Jae-myung in December 2021. Let's listen to it. I think there's a possibility that it's my comment. There was an expression that the photo was released as if I played golf. The court paid attention to this part, right?

[Lim Joo-hye]
I saw it as playing golf. But the fact that I played golf, that is, that there was an act of exchange. So, it may be different that there was an exchange activity between "I didn't know," "I know," and "I don't know." The part where I played golf was true, and the court admitted it.

[Anchor]
At that time, when I checked, CEO Lee Jae-myung took some of the group photos of our group and manipulated them. That's what I said. Was there a court judgment on this part?

[Lim Joo-hye]
It's a part that I haven't played in this regard. Because it's the part that I didn't hit it, even though I knew these parts were intended to affect the election, I made a statement even though I knew the false information.

[Anchor]
Looking at the explanatory data of the court, the act of playing overseas golf seems to be a memorable act, and this is included.

[Lim Joo-hye]
So, in order for this crime to be established, I should have recognized that it was a false fact, so I should have known it and said it for the purpose of intentionally affecting the election, but this is a part that is far from any subjective perception, and I can clearly know whether I played golf or not. I think it can be said that the court judged like this.

[Anchor]
In the meantime, Lee Jae-myung's representative lawyer's side has been aware of this. It's a dimension of memory, I've been arguing like that, but the court has acknowledged the part to admit, but I can't admit this part.

[Lim Joo-hye]
There are additional evidences such as photos taken together because of various other evidence submitted, or we played golf with the mayor through voice, so in this case, it seems that the fact is more of a dispute than recognition. The Democratic Party of Korea will hold an emergency supreme council meeting to announce its official position. I'll let you know as soon as I get in. The part to talk a little more with lawyer Lim Joo-hye is representative Lee Jae-myung on four trials. The first trial of violation of the Public Official Election Act was just released, and it is suspected that it is involved in allegations of perjury teachers, suspicions related to Daejang-dong, Baekhyun-dong, and Seongnam FC, and suspicions of remittance to North Korea.

[Lim Joo-hye]
That's right. In fact, this trial is also drawing keen attention. In the case of this perjury teacher case, in 2004, CEO Lee Jae-myung was fined 1.5 million won for impersonating a prosecutor in connection with the suspicion of preferential sale of Parcube in Bundang in connection with the PD. However, at the 2018 Gyeonggi Governor's TV debate, I asked Kim Jin-sung, the secretary of the late Seongnam Mayor Kim Byung-ryang, to make false statements about the impersonation of the prosecutor several times, so he is suspected of teaching perjury.

First of all, the prosecution asked for three years in prison, and in this case, two years in prison, but the prosecution, which is higher than this, has now requested three years in prison.
And in this regard, the arrest warrant was rejected at the time in the actual examination of the arrest warrant for CEO Lee Jae-myung, but at least in relation to the perjury teacher part, some substance and charges are admitted, so the prosecution can clearly prove this part, and they are showing this confidence. On the other hand, representative Lee Jae-myung is completely groundless in this regard. The result of the first trial of the perjury teacher's trial on the 25th is also very interesting because the details of the call are simply to state as you know it, and answer as you know it.

[Anchor]
In that case, if the imprisonment sentence or higher is confirmed, it will result in the loss of parliamentary seats and deprivation of the right to run for election, right?

[Lim Joo-hye]
That's right. In fact, this is not a case related to the election law, but a perjury teacher, so if the imprisonment sentence or higher is confirmed at that time, the parliamentary seat will be deprived like this time.

[Anchor]
I see. Thank you. So far, we have heard in detail about the first trial's ruling on Lee Jae-myung's violation of the Public Official Election Act with lawyer Lim Joo-hye. Thank you very much. Thank you.