Kim Min-ha, "People's power, delayed trial TF composition? 'Naero South Fire'"

◆ [YTN Radio SHINYUL's news]
■ Broadcasting: FM 94.5 (17:00-19:00)
■ Air date: November 18, 2024 (Monday)
■ Proceedings: Shin Yul, Professor of Political Science and Diplomacy at Myongji University
■ Dialogue: Jang Sung-chul, Director of Public Opinion Center, Kim Min-ha, Current Affairs Critic

* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information.

Jang Sung-cheol
- Both ruling and opposition parties should stop 'public opinion war' toward the judiciary
- The Democratic Party of Korea cannot bring out innocence due to 'Lee Jae-myung deification'
- Blind faith, possible religious book… Politics is different
-Judicial pressure, insult...What help to Lee Jae-myung?
- Lee Jae-myung, you should keep your cool at times like this
- People's Power, 'Justified' in Court Judgment? Please let it go.
Kim Min-ha
- Lee Jae-myung's beating Han Dong-hoon, suspected of sincerity in reform
- Lee Jae-myung's leaning on reflective profits
- The ruling and opposition parties should not resolve judicial issues politically
- The next Democratic presidential candidate should win confirmation
- People's power, delayed trial TF composition? 'Narrowing south'
- The Democratic Party criticized 'threatening judges' and then monitors the judiciary
- The Democratic Party should make it clear with 'special prosecutor' message of off-the-shelf rally

◆ Shin Yul: As I said earlier, Shin Yul's news head-to-head match, part one on Monday, is decorated with political Kim & Chang. Two people are here today. Let me introduce them one by one. First of all, he is the director of the Jang Sung-cheol Public Opinion Center. How are you?

◇ Jang Seong-cheol: Yes, hello.

◆ Shin Yul: Yes, and Kim Min-ha is a current affairs critic. Please come in.

■ Kim Min-ha: Hello.

◆ Shin Yul: It's gotten a lot colder. But you seem to be wearing it like that and healthy.

◇ Jang Sung-chul: I came up from the parking lot.

◆ Shin Yul: Did you ride a bike?

■ Kim Min-ha: I can't ride it.

◆ Shin Yul: Oh, I can't ride it. It's so cold right now.

■ Kim Min-ha: If you have the will, you can ride it. That's right. The winter equipment is not ready yet.

◆ Shin Yul: Wearing fleece's biking pants as well as

■ Kim Min-ha: I should wear something. I'm not ready yet.

◆ Shin Yul: I see. Anyway, the weather is getting cold and Jungkook is freezing today, but it's a corner in a corner! Let's start with today's client. Please pick a person, a person, or an issue that you really want to excuse your argument for the week. First, Director Jang Sung-chul, please choose today's client.

◇ Jang Sung-chul: I'm Lee Jae-myung, the leader of the Democratic

◆ Shin Yul: You like it.

◇ Jang Sung-chul: Rather than liking it, I want to say that we shouldn't do this because something absurd is coming from the Democratic Party. At today's Supreme Council, the judges who ruled from the leadership are saying, "This is judicial murder. You graduated from law school at Seoul National University, right. You're saying this, '∀'."
◆ Sin Yul: But I don't really want to say that. Of course, they went to Seoul National University, and although it's law school, what I think about in my life is that it's good to come to Seoul National University, but there are many smart and wise people who didn't come to Seoul National University.

◇ Jang Sung-chul: There are people like me. And on the 17th, Lee Hae-sik, the party's chief of staff, even wrote about the priest of God, the servant of God, on Facebook. I wonder if this is the right way to respond, and we are planning a large-scale outdoor rally on Saturday. This week, I think, why don't you be a little cool-headed about whether putting pressure on the judiciary, insulting the judiciary, and deifying representative Lee Jae-myung will help lower or prevent the risk of this trial? You're very excited and angry, and I know you really want to do something about it, but I hope you keep calm and defend the trial in court. You can't lead to innocence in public opinion or deification of representative Lee Jae-myung. That's what they say.

◆ Shin Yul: Critic Kim Minha's client of the day?

■ Kim Min-ha: If you say you're a client, shouldn't I pick the person I want to plead with?

◆ Shin Yul: No, it's almost like Jang is saying this to defend himself. Go forward. You can't do that. Let's do that.

■ Kim Min-ha: Then the power of the people.

◆ Shin Yul: You're a little crooked. It's crooked.

■ Kim Min-ha: I'm a little crooked now, but I don't have a good personality, but I'll be Han Dong-hoon, the representative of the People's Power. Then, representative Han Dong-hoon, so, representative Lee Jae-myung's message before and after this ruling is almost all about targeting representative Lee Jae-myung, who is targeting the Democratic Party of Korea. Until then, the point was focused on reforming the people's power and bringing about changes in the Yoon Suk Yeol regime. In this regard, it seems that conservative voters were able to have some expectations about representative Han Dong-hoon, but now, for example, some media outlets are talking about demanding some special investigation into first lady Kim Gun-hee and the so-called Myung Tae-kyun gate surrounding President Yoon Suk Yeol. In fact, the so-called civil society and some voters in the middle class are asking for this, not just the Democratic Party, right? But in fact, there could be a misunderstanding like this. It's all tied up with wholesale money, so it's all a voice of intimidation by the judge. It's all a move to protect Lee Jae-myung. In fact, those who want to make such a voice may doubt that CEO Han Dong-hoon is now trying to cover up some of the other's pains in a way that highlights some of the other's losses or weaknesses rather than bringing about any changes in the ruling party or President Yoon Suk Yeol. So, looking at these newspapers today, you pointed out a lot of those points. For example, critics and professors are now sentencing Lee Jae-myung and the confusion of the Democratic Party of Korea, which may be a boon to the people's power or Han Dong-hoon, but at this time, it is necessary not to rely on reflective profits and to do what they have to do. CEO Han Dong-hoon also said that he probably sympathized with it. So, I don't want to end by saying that, but I hope that CEO Han Dong-hoon and the strategy of the people's power will continue to do what they need to do without relying on reflective interests. I'm telling you this as a defense.

◆ Shin-yul: So the biggest thing that both of you talked about today was the first trial ruling on Lee Jae-myung's allegation of false information under the Public Official Election Act, and the perjury teacher ruling will come out on the 25th. This is because the leader of the New Future Democratic Party, Jeon Byung-hun, came to our studio last Friday and said he would speak out on the 25th. They said that there are these Democratic screams. How do you view the 25th?

◇ Jang Sung-chul: The difficult one.

◆ Shin Yul: It's difficult, so let me ask you. If it's easy, it's like

◇ Jang Sung-chul: So originally, we expected a stricter sentence than the Public Official Election Act. Regarding perjury teachers, 94% of those sentenced were sentenced to prison.

◆ Shin Yul: The perjury teacher has been

◇ Jang Seong-cheol: I heard that there was a prison sentence. Then it could come out higher than we expected, and anyway, it's not the judge. This is not guilty, so it would be better to watch calmly, but I think it would be better not to show such a form of pressure on the Democratic Party or the people or the judiciary or judges. So, the Democratic Party of Korea is thinking about trying to pressure the judges through public opinion campaigns, and in the case of the power of the people, it made a really, really just ruling. And then broadcast the trial live, and there's also a one-man demonstration. Please leave me alone. He said he'd ask for it again. And so, please, those things are

◆ Shin Yul: They really like live broadcasts.

◇ Jang Seong-cheol: So I hope you don't do that. I don't want you to plead not guilty. The Democratic Party of Korea and Chairman Lee Jae-myung are because.

◆ Sin-ryul: You can do it. You can claim that you're innocent because you're not fair.

◇ Jang Sung-cheol: The reason why Chairman Lee Jae-myung or the Democratic Party of Korea should not talk about it is because on October 26, 2016, then-Sungnam Governor Lee Jae-myung said on social media that Seongnam Mayor Lee Jae-myung said this

◆ It's 2017.

◇ Jang Seong-cheol: October 26, 2016

◆ Is that so?

◇ Jang Sung-chul: Legal interpretation is done by judges and prosecutors, not criminals. That's what I said. Go back to Lee Jae-myung at that time, so why don't you defend yourself in court and wait calmly and coolly for the sentence?

■ Kim Min-ha: As you said, regarding perjury, it is true that it will be a little more pessimistic for the Democratic Party than the current election law trial. First of all, the person who gave perjury claims that the perjury teacher was pressured to give perjury, and then when the arrest warrant for CEO Lee Jae-myung was rejected last time, the judgment of the judge in charge of the warrant at that time suggests that this part is an explanation anyway, right? So, if you put these things together, there is a possibility that they may be found guilty even in relation to perjury teachers. I think you're looking at it for now, but as you said, various laws are not simply judged as they are seen from the outside, right? And the Democratic Party has its own logic to protest. I'm just asking you to tell me what's going on right now. Therefore, if you apply this law based on that, you can't become a perjury teacher. It will be a matter of watching how the judge will judge it. However, as you said, this law responds to the problem of law, the law is now solved according to the law, and the rest of the problem of law is brought to the political field to solve the legal problem politically. It would be better for both sides to refrain from proceeding like this. I have this idea, too.

◇ Jang Sung-cheol: But if you get a prison sentence on the 25th instead of a fine, if you come out in the form of probation, the atmosphere and movement that we need to come up with an alternative after the risk to CEO Lee Jae-myung can be strengthened. In particular, in the case of perjury teachers, there is no such court battle because they have already called many witnesses and talked about them. Then, if the Supreme Court sentence is finalized before the 2027 presidential election, there will be a case where representative Lee Jae-myung cannot run for president. If that happens, the Democratic Party of Korea could face the presidential election without a candidate running for president. I don't think this will work. I think we need to prepare a plan B. There will be non-leader-level lawmakers who think that, or there will be former lawmakers, or pro-Myeong lawmakers will think that this is too risky for us to just plead not guilty, so I think it will be meaningful for other people to expand and create more space for their activities.

◆ Shin Yul: But didn't some of the strong friends say that I shouldn't move this scream through strong remarks that I can't talk about on TV? It's such an atmosphere, but now that the director is talking about it, is that possible? How do you see it?

■ Kim Min-ha: Moving is now a matter of how you move.

◆ [Voiceover] Don't move.

■ Kim Min-ha: For example, people who are called screaming can think, "Is this the time when I move?" But can't you move in a way that doesn't show on the outside? For example, former Chief of Staff Lim Jong-seok posted a message a few days ago, but the sentence against Representative Lee Jae-myung is too unconvincing. It's a judgment. This is a political judgment and a political repression. So, CEO Lee Jae-myung posted a message to the effect that it's unfair. But at the end, I'm really worried about what to do at this time. This is the message at the end. Then, looking at this, what it looks like to people who live off of political commentary or something like this is a message like, "Now, I'm out." However, the previous message is that CEO Lee Jae-myung has no more opportunity. That's why it's my turn. That's not how you say it, is it? The current structure is that I don't say that I will be an alternative to Representative Lee Jae-myung if I think what other runners should do in the Democratic Party, which may have an opportunity in the future. Without saying so, Lee Jae-myung is unfair. I will join in the struggle of Lee Jae-myung. Shouldn't we take a step that requires approval from the so-called pro-Myeong community by saying that we will take the lead in protesting some kind of political oppression against representative Lee Jae-myung? And as we go along, at a time when no one can resist the fact that we really have to discuss Plan B now, and then when no one can resist that fact, so let's discuss it now. Because this is how it works, that's why the space that moves in this unexposed way is opened now, and it doesn't move in this way while causing some conflict with CEO Lee Jae-myung or his own name. First of all, that's how we should look at it.

◇ Jang Seong-cheol: I think we need to look at the public opinion in Honam. If the approval rating of the Democratic Party of Korea or Chairman Lee Jae-myung falls in Honam next week and early this year, this will be a big deal from Honam, the base of the Democratic Party. Since the public opinion that an alternative should be prepared is rising from the bottom, I think we should focus on that and the supporters of the Democratic Party may be angry, but politics is never a religion. Pastor, Jesus, Buddha, monk. There may be all the principles of no fault. But such blind, one-sided beliefs are just possible in religious groups, in the political arena. If the political leader we like and support did something wrong to some extent, we have to make internal criticism, correct the trajectory, and correct it if we want to deviate. It's just right. It's innocent. It's just a person who has entered the realm of God. If you say this, those who don't support them will have no choice but to turn a blind eye to them. So, it may be a little unfair and difficult, but I think it's better not to say too radical things. In particular, Choi Min-hee, chairman of the Korea Communications Commission and the National Defense Council, said something harsh, but such words will never help solve the situation.

◆ Shin Yul: I'd like to ask you this question, critic Kim Min-ha. There's a crisis right now, right? However, whether this is a crisis for the leader of the party or the crisis for the party, the fact is that we need to clarify this. What do you think?

■ Kim Min-ha: Probably both.

◆ Shin Yul: But for example, if it's a public party, can't the party leader prevent the crisis of the party leader from turning into a crisis of the party?

■ Kim Min-ha: But now we have to find a solution. First of all, in the last general election, isn't there a context that can be evaluated as the so-called Lee Jae-myung one-way system in terms of nomination and this? It's been formed, isn't it? Since there is a consequence, the first thing is that if a certain judicial conclusion is confirmed when it is confirmed, it has already created an environment in which Lee Jae-myung and the Democratic Party can be completely separated from each other. The second is that the ruling on the violation of the election law is well known because the election was held as a presidential candidate at the time of Lee Jae-myung. Isn't it possible that it could eventually be a ruling that requires the return of the election expenses that were compensated at the time? If it's confirmed, isn't that more than 40 billion won? Then, even if we just calculate it from a financial perspective, this is inevitably a serious crisis for the Democratic Party. Then, just by looking at the process that has created any political or current conditions, and just looking at this financial issue, it is now a party crisis, so it is undeniable that there is an environment in which there must be some party response to this issue, whether it is oneself or others. However, as Director Jang said, we must unite unconditionally and protect representative Lee Jae-myung unconditionally. Is this the way to voice all these voices after going to the outdoor rally? Or, of course, it will be necessary to separate this message wisely and protect representative Lee Jae-myung, which is legally to keep it in court and to speak out, for example, outside the court. It's important to know how well you can do these things, such as pointing out any problems of the Yoon Suk Yeol regime or focusing on finding suspicions about the current situation. If you mix it up incorrectly, I think the Democratic Party's crisis is not at the level it is now and it will face a much bigger crisis. That's what I thought.

◇ Jang Seong-cheol: We're not in the era of dictatorship or authoritarianism. The Democratic Party of Korea should not be Lee Jae-myung's Democratic Party, but Lee Jae-myung of the Democratic Party. Because of the risk of party leader Lee Jae-myung, why would the Democratic Party and the progressive camp take the risk of collapsing, breaking, and falling into the mud together? It's not the problem that I criticized the Yoon Suk Yeol regime and criticized the people's power the same way, but it's not Kim Gun-hee's people's power. Why are the people's power and the conservative camp dragged into the mud together to protect such problems of First Lady Kim Gun-hee? You have to change what's wrong. If the blade has become dull, you should bring a new blade or fix the blade properly, but if we stick to it and keep it with our stubbornness and belief, we can overcome it. Is this the Olympic Games? This is politics. Then, we have to find a solution and settle the situation through very precise political judgment, but the power of the Democratic Party and the people are all winning the spirit right now. Through stubbornness, belief, group hypnosis, etc., they are only defending the leaders they have to protect and defend. From the public's point of view, both sides are pathetic, and I think CEO Han Dong-hoon is in a serious crisis. In my view, it's because look at the president of Yoon Suk Yeol, the Yoon nuclear officers and the president's office, now that Lee Jae-myung's judicial risk has become a reality, he may not be able to run in the next presidential election. So, if we unite and form a unified team, we can overcome our crisis. So, don't shoot inside. Don't raise the issue anymore, Kim Gun-hee. There is a high possibility that there will be voices like this. Then, the reforms and reforms that representative Han Dong-hoon talked about and the people's livelihoods that meet the public's expectations become impossible. So CEO Han Dong-hoon should show leadership and use it as an important lever to change the power of the people and the presidential office. That's what I'm saying.

◆ Shin Yul: That's what you're saying, right? And in fact, the most important thing in political strategy is to make a customized strategy according to who the other person is, but if the other person shakes, the strategy will also falter, so I think that's right, but Han Dong-hoon, the representative of the people's power, said. We will set up a TF to monitor the rapid progress of Lee Jae-myung's trial to prevent distortion of the trial process. If you set up a TF, you can't stop it. How do you watch this?

■ Kim Min-ha: I think this is typically a political action that inappropriately takes advantage of the opponent's loss and the opponent's difficulties in many ways. Of course, in some ways, it's necessary to use it when the opponent shows some weakness, but monitoring the trial proceeding normally quickly is a matter of the judiciary, right? Isn't it the judiciary's responsibility to expedite the trial? For example, the trial should proceed quickly, but that can happen. To give an example, representative Lee Jae-myung could be like a bed soccer. But as a result, don't play bed soccer. For example, I'll even proceed with a stand trial. Isn't it the judge's responsibility to say this? That's a matter for the judiciary. But in the party outside, it's too much for the ruling party to set up a TF and say this as if it's going to monitor the trial in the judiciary, but rather, it's too much in my view to take the separation of powers clearly, for example, the message. Since the separation of powers must be clearly observed, the Democratic Party should not put pressure on the judiciary outside, for example, through outdoor rallies like this. We won't put pressure on you either. This is the right message, right? However, on this SNS, if the Democratic Party demands special prosecutor Kim Gun-hee and raises a question about President Yoon Suk Yeol, it is a intimidating meeting of judges, and the party will set up a TF team for the rapid progress of this trial. If you say so, people are likely to react like, "Isn't this typically something that doesn't fit?" So I think it's not good to do this.

◇ Jang Sung-chul: Critic Kim Min-ha said exactly, and I think it's another form of judicial pressure. I think the judges will be like this. I think I'm going to ask you to leave me alone. So, you can check the judiciary in politics and monitor whether the trial is going right, and things like this can be done at the standing committee. You can do it with the official authority of the National Assembly. If you keep trying to solve these things by public opinion or within the party, this is seen as pressure from the political circle not to recognize the independence of the judiciary. So, please don't even talk about the judge, the judiciary. That's what I think. These things. You can solve it through your own legislative power. You can make institutional improvements. So please don't just mention the judges anymore and leave them alone.
◆ Sin-ryul: And if you look at the Korean political scene, you don't seem to be able to distinguish between control and checks. So, from distinguishing between control and checks, all political circles in Korea are the same. I think I need to learn that first. You wrote this in the YouTube comment. You two look like a couple today. Come to think of it, the colors are similar. You can't squeeze it like this. And I heard you're going to have an outdoor rally this weekend, too.

◇ Jang Sung-chul: Yeah, I don't think this is an effective strategy. Until now, we've been holding outdoor rallies and pressuring public opinion, but it didn't work in the end. On the contrary, isn't there an analysis that it seems that a more serious sentence was sentenced because it said, "It's more pressure on us, it's disgusting?" So the outdoor rally is... I think we need to separate it thoroughly. It should be limited to the introduction of Kim Gun-hee's special prosecutor as a mistake in condemning the Yoon Suk Yeol regime. The message should not be confused as soon as there is a voice saying, "Let's protect Lee Jae-myung." Then, it will be difficult for many people who are against the Yoon Suk Yeol regime to participate in the rally. Even if I want to oppose it, I can't participate because I think I'm defending Lee Jae-myung. So make sure to separate the message. And I think it's one way not to hold outdoor rallies until the sentencing is announced on the 25th.

■ Kim Min-ha: The beginning of the outdoor rally was definitely like I said before, accept the special prosecutor, and now let's resolve the various suspicions of the Yoon Suk Yeol regime.After the ruling came out, Ma eventually went up to representative Lee Jae-myung and said he was alive, and then the Democratic Party politicians talked about raising the issue of the ruling. But as you said, it's better not to say that. I'd like to say that it's good to continue to make it clear that we're going to continue to maintain that purpose in the first place, and I understand that when the Democratic Party gathers, they're talking about it at the meeting. At the rally, they say that it's better to follow the original intent rather than that, but when they go on stage, they say that.

■ Kim Min-ha: But it depends on how wisely you can refrain from doing that and how well you can manage the message of the Democratic Party's supporters there. I hope you keep this in mind.

◇ Jang Sung-chul: So Lee Jae-myung is not dying as representative Lee Jae-myung speaks at the rally last Saturday. Democracy doesn't die, either. It's like this. You weren't sentenced to independence or democracy or democratization. You're now sentenced for lying. I felt quite reluctant about that part, but I say that I need to tone down the message.

◆ Sin Yul: That's all for today. Thank you.

◇ Jang Seong-cheol, ■ Kim Min-ha: Thank you.

◆ Shin Yul: So far, we have been with Jang Sung-chul, director of the Public Opinion Center, and Kim Min-ha, two current affairs critics.