[News UP] Emergency martial law investigation...Two Commissioner's Arrest Examination and Securing a 'Security Phone'

■ Host: Anchor Yoon Jae-hee, Anchor Cho Jin-hyuk
■ Starring: Lawyer Park Sung-bae

* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information. Please specify [YTN News UP] when quoting.

[Anchor]
As the police investigation into the emergency martial law situation accelerated, two top police commanders were at the crossroads of arrest at the same time. Former Minister Kim Yong-hyun's security phone, a key piece of evidence, was also secured. Let's go over it with lawyer Park Sung-bae. Please come in. The head of the National Police Agency and the head of the Seoul Metropolitan Government will hold an arrest examination this afternoon, so what do you think is the biggest issue in the arrest judgment?

[Park Sung-bae]
The charges themselves are charges of rebellion that blocked the National Assembly and controlled lawmakers. The overall issue seems to be the reason why the National Assembly was blocked, the progress of the specific situation, and the intention to do such an act. In addition, the legality of the emergency arrest is expected to be an important issue in the warrant review stage, as the two suspects who were under investigation were urgently arrested in the process.

[Anchor]
If you are punished for rebellion, isn't there a leader, an important mission worker, and a simple participant? As you said, if you see Commissioner Cho as an important mission worker, will you be accused of conspiring with him?

[Park Sung-bae]
Even if it's not a public offering, I think it's clear that important mission work is done. If emergency martial law is viewed as a civil war, the civil war can be divided into three stages: head, important mission work, and subordinate performance. The head will be the president who declared emergency martial law, and the Minister of National Defense, at least the commander who directly directed and supervised the members on the spot, the police chief, and the Seoul Metropolitan Police Agency can be fully evaluated as important mission workers. In the case of the investigation team leader who is in charge of command and supervision of the actual members below that level, or the members deployed in the field can be evaluated as some important duties depending on the performance of the subordinate or the situation, but at least if you are the head of the National Police Agency or the head of the Seoul Metropolitan Police Agency, you have no choice but to be evaluated as important duties as long as you are in the command of the overall force.

[Anchor]
Director Jo Ji-ho's investigation is also being revealed, and President Yoon also mentioned that it ended quickly thanks to him. Can I say I knew I would fail?

[Park Sung-bae]
There are two possible interpretations. First, there is room for interpretation that the president did not intend to take control of the constitutional institution through emergency martial law in the first place, and that he had no intention of declaring a proper emergency martial law as long as he said that it was simply a warning and that it ended quickly thanks to you after the issue was over. However, on the other hand, the National Police Agency Commissioner Jo Ji-ho states that such remarks came out after the emergency rule was lifted, but since the emergency rule has been lifted, the aftermath is enormous. We will immediately enter the impeachment phase, and these remarks may have been made in the process of discussing how to deal with it.

In other words, such remarks rather increase the credibility of National Police Agency Commissioner Jo Ji-ho's statement, which was called by the president three hours before the declaration of the emergency martial law during the police investigation, and he delivered the data on the A4 paper. Furthermore, after the emergency decree was declared, the president personally called six times to order the arrest of members of the National Assembly.

However, after the emergency rule was lifted, the president said that it ended quickly thanks to you and that he did a good job, which could be against him. Rather, he also testified that it could be advantageous for the president. In any case, where there is insufficient physical evidence and the substance of the case must be confirmed through personal evidence, the court does not highly appreciate the credibility that the personal evidence and the statement of the statement are unilaterally made only statements against or in favor of them. Depending on the situation, it is disadvantageous and rather advantageous, and the credibility of this statement is highly judged only when there is a statement that goes back and forth. In other words, the statement that it was completed quickly thanks to you after the martial law was lifted is expected to serve as a reason to increase the credibility of the statement made by National Police Agency Commissioner Jo Ji-ho.

[Anchor]
On the day of martial law, Yoon Suk Yeol's president checked it graphically a while ago, but he reportedly grasped the martial law situation in real time by calling him six times. Then, can it be used as evidence that there was direct instruction from President Yoon Suk Yeol?

[Park Sung-bae]
It can be used as strong evidence, and of course, it is extremely unlikely that such instructions will remain in the form of a recording. In this case, it is difficult to obtain material evidence, that is, emergency martial law is also a type of case in which it is difficult to confirm material evidence as a whole. At this time, the substance of the case must be identified through personal evidence. We must go through the procedure to verify the credibility. Does the procedure for verifying credibility generally state the contents in a similar form, although there are differences in common remarks and some statements made by several people? Furthermore, what form of career did the career move before and after such an argument was made.

And is there a record of the actual call at the time such an instruction was made? Even if the recording does not exist, it goes through a procedure to check the degree of circumstances that can support the credibility of the specific statement by whether the record of the call exists. In fact, in light of the circumstances revealed so far, National Police Agency Commissioner Jo Ji-ho is also making quite a detailed statement. Special Forces commander Kwak Jong-geun also makes a detailed statement that he received such instructions from former Defense Minister Kim Yong-hyun or President Yoon. Furthermore, there is a statement from Yeo In-hyeong, commander of counterintelligence, that the minister directly ordered the characters, so he called out a list to be arrested to write them down. Subsequently, there are statements that Yeo In-hyeong, the commander of counterintelligence, has instructed him to identify facilities to be detained.

As a series of specific statements like this are being piled up, it is highly likely that each statement will be highly reliable if it is captured from time to time to support the statement, even if it is not conclusive material evidence to support the statement.

[Anchor]
The police also secured a security phone for former Defense Minister Kim Yong-hyun. What content should I check here?

[Park Sung-bae]
This security phone can be heard normally between the conversation parties using it, but when a third party attempts to eavesdrop, it encrypts the security phone voice according to the program, causing strange noise. It is a phone used by high-ranking government officials to prevent wiretapping. This security phone cannot be recorded due to its nature. As a result, the police secured former Defense Minister Kim Yong-hyun's security phone yesterday, and went out and secured security phone server data from the defense office. You should check how the call record exists, not through the security phone.

You need to check who you talked to and what kind of call was made at what time and time. As explained earlier, there is a flood of testimony that they have received various instructions that could actually be considered emergency martial law, and it is necessary to check the specific phone records one by one to confirm who made the call and how their careers moved after the call.

[Anchor]
He's even using the expression "Pandora's Box." So, you're saying that even if we secure this server and analyze it, it's virtually impossible to disclose direct writing and transcripts, right?

[Park Sung-bae]
Due to the nature of the emergency martial law incident, it is extremely unlikely that a recording exists. In cases where physical evidence is difficult to obtain, courts also tend to appreciate the credibility of personal evidence. This is because it is a difficult case to obtain material evidence in the first place. However, the process of confirming the credibility goes through several times, and the overall confirmation of the procedure to secure credibility, at what stage such a statement is being made and whether the circumstances that support the credibility of the statement are subsequently supported. If several statements are being made to date and there are a number of phone records to ensure the credibility of these statements, it is highly likely that each statement will be highly valued.

[Anchor]
Let's also look at the prosecution's investigation. We're reviewing the arrest warrant for Yeo In-hyeong, commander of counterintelligence, and we're investigating the part where we put agents into the NEC, right?

[Park Sung-bae]
Yeo In-hyeong, the commander of counterintelligence, can be said to be a key figure in this case. The counterintelligence agency is a department in charge of defense against internal counterintelligence, that is, external information infiltration. In this case, it seems that the counterintelligence commander intends to carry out the investigation after arresting and detaining members of the National Assembly. In the process, some say that they asked the National Assembly to send some troops, put agents to the NEC, or even ordered them to secure bunkers in the radiation to detain them after arresting lawmakers. In particular, in the case of Yeo In-hyeong, commander of counterintelligence, he is a key figure in this case, so there is a high possibility that an arrest warrant will be requested soon.

The reason Yeo In-hyeong, commander of counterintelligence, is important is not only the aspect of playing a key role during the emergency, but also human evidence that the emergency has been planned for a long time from the beginning. In other words, since early summer, President Yoon has mentioned martial law, and since then, he has mentioned martial law several times. He said that he took it as a meaningless statement at first, but he even knelt down and stopped it when he saw him talking more seriously.

The current president of Yoon Suk Yeol, then, argues that the emergency decree was issued as a warning to the opposition rather than a serious plan.If Ma's statement from Yeo In-hyeong, the counterintelligence commander, is true, of course, we have to weigh the credibility.Ma has been planning emergency martial law for a long time, and if you look specifically at what he has instructed the Yeo In-hyeong counterintelligence commander, you can get some concreteness. Specifically, it can be said to be human evidence to support that emergency martial law was not just a warning but seriously intended to make it impossible for constitutional institutions to exercise their powers.

[Anchor]
Didn't you claim that Yeo In-hyeong, the commander of the counterintelligence command, even kneeled and stopped him? We can't rule out the possibility that this statement was made in order to use it as legal defense logic in the future, right?

[Park Sung-bae]
It is highly likely that he will protest that he has been stopped whenever there is a story about emergency martial law, but he has been forced to declare emergency martial law and has only performed his duties as a soldier according to the instructions under the emergency martial law. However, Yeo In-hyeong, the chief of the counterintelligence, was supposed to be the head of the joint investigation headquarters if he led the entire case, or at least if Yoon Suk Yeol's allegations of civil war were proven, he was in a position to investigate the ultimate purpose of the civil war, the election watchdog's alleged election fraud, and even if emergency martial law was declared. Since he is a key figure, it is highly likely that he will be punished as an important mission worker if he presupposes the establishment of a rebellion crime despite such a protest. However, in the course of the investigation, statements are not refined, especially at the beginning of the investigation, and various statements are often made, so we need to see whether such statements will work in your favor or against you in the future.

[Anchor]
I think we should also analyze the contents of President Yoon Suk Yeol's statement to the public yesterday morning. Some say that it was a statement close to the victim's defense statement, but what do you think of it from the lawyer's point of view?

[Park Sung-bae]
It seems that the parties to the investigation or impeachment trial made specific arguments. Above all, it is argued that it was to warn the opposition to stop by informing them of its anti-national defeat. In other words, it is a statement that sounds to the effect of not meeting the requirements of emergency martial law, but we need to see how such remarks will work in criminal proceedings in the future. In particular, can there be a two-hour martial law? The main argument seems to be that there was no serious purpose of martial law. I think we need to check the facts first.

In fact, it seems necessary to first check whether it was just a warning or whether it was trying to issue a serious emergency martial law, but nevertheless failed due to the passive response of field commanders and members. Even if the fact that it is only a warning is confirmed, it is necessary to legally examine whether it constitutes a rebellion, and rebellion is a crime in which the rider is established regardless of the purpose of the riot itself. Even if the armed soldiers were put into the National Assembly and the National Election Commission itself failed, the crime of rebellion could reach its peak. It is quite questionable to what extent such a plea will be accepted.

[Anchor]
Didn't Han Dong-hoon, the representative of the People's Power, say that he is at the level of confessing to the civil war after seeing the statement? Why is this reaction coming out?

[Park Sung-bae]
Above all, the president's mouth confirmed that he was willing to take control of the constitutional institution, members of the National Assembly, and the NEC. It is argued that it is in itself the purpose of confessing to the act of rebellion. In fact, even if an emergency martial law is declared, the exercise of the legislative power of the National Assembly cannot be prevented under any circumstances, and furthermore, certain doubts are raised without meeting the requirements of the emergency martial law. CEO Han Dong-hoon's view is that trying to take control of the NEC itself constitutes a civil war.

[Anchor]
They also argued that martial law is a highly governmental act. The 1997 Supreme Court precedent seems to be the basis. Is there anything legally controversial?

[Park Sung-bae]
First of all, there are some cases in which judicial review was refrained because it was the president's ruling act. For example, the dispatch of troops to Iraq or the exercise of amnesty rights is an act of governance by the president and an inappropriate subject for legal judgment. It is a court precedent that these acts should be excluded from judicial review. However, overall, the scope of governance is shrinking. In other words, it is a general view that the scope of governance outside the legal control procedure should be reduced, and the same is true for precedents. Above all, even a successful coup should be punished.This is the position of Supreme Court precedent.

For example, in light of the Supreme Court precedents related to the December 12 incident and the May 18 incident, Korea has taken national sovereignty, liberal democracy, and the rule of law as basic principles since the constitution was enacted, and even if the constitution was revised due to civil war, it is not acceptable to take control of the government by violence under the constitutional order of Korea. The Supreme Court's precedent is that civil war should be punished even if it is a successful coup. Furthermore, this precedent should refrain from judicial review as an act of the president's governance as well as the declaration of emergency martial law.

However, if an emergency martial law is declared for the purpose of disrupting the national constitution, it has been judged that the court can sufficiently determine whether it constitutes a criminal act. Even the cited case can be reviewed on the premise that it is actually an act of rebellion, and it is a case that actually convicted of rebellion.

[Anchor]
And among the things that President Yoon Suk Yeol directly mentioned in his statement yesterday, he said that if the opposition party is left as it is, he will also bring the sword of impeachment to the judiciary, and that the judiciary is threatened. However, the newly known fact is that from Yeo In-hyeong, commander of counterintelligence, Cho Ji-ho, head of the National Police Agency, stated that he heard the arrest list for the current judge. If this is true, it could be a serious threat to the judiciary, so how did you see this?

[Park Sung-bae]
The perjury teacher case against CEO Lee Jae-myung overturned the general expectations of the public and was found not guilty in the first trial. Among the figures that Yeo In-hyeong, commander of counterintelligence, attempted to arrest was a judge who ruled not guilty of the first trial of the Public Official Election Act at the time. Police Commissioner Jo Ji-ho received the list for the first time and asked who this person was because his name was unfamiliar, and he said he was the judge. If this statement is true, this part is quite a serious problem. Judges are also constitutional institutions. Whether it is a constitutional institution or not is judged based on whether it is stipulated in the constitution. In other words, the president, members of the National Assembly, judges, and the NEC are constitutional institutions because they are stipulated in the Constitution.

Prosecutors are also constitutional institutions because they are stipulated in the Constitution. However, the police are not stipulated in the Constitution. It's not a constitutional institution. As stipulated in the Constitution, if a judge is a constitutional institution and attempts to arrest a real judge just because he made a certain judgment regardless of other circumstances, this itself is clearly unconstitutional and is highly likely to be a civil war. Apart from the severity of the literature, the civil war has relatively simple binding requirements, and it is a civil war that makes it impossible for constitutional institutions to exercise their powers by coercion. If so, it is highly likely to be a civil war as an act that made the exercise of power of a judge, a constitutional institution, no longer possible by the coercion of arrest.

[Anchor]
I'll give you a breaking news a little while ago. The prosecution's special investigation headquarters summoned Kim Jung-geun, the chief of the 3rd Airborne Special Forces Brigade, to the prosecution. And there is a breaking news that we are investigating the reference person. In the case of the 3rd Airborne Special Forces Brigade, it is the same unit that was tasked with entering the National Assembly at the time of martial law. This is a breaking news that Kim Jung-geun, the commander of the 3rd Airborne Special Forces Brigade, has been summoned to the prosecution to investigate the reference. Lawyer, did the President yesterday make the case that this was for the purpose of maintaining order in relation to the introduction of the National Assembly's armed forces? However, if you look at the statements of various military officials, there are such statements that are different from those of the president. How should I look at this?

[Park Sung-bae]
Was it necessary to put the military into the National Assembly to maintain order? Even if emergency martial law is declared, the National Assembly can request immediate notification of the lifting. The exercise of power cannot be prevented under any circumstances, but it is not immediately understandable that the military has been put into the National Assembly. It is questionable how the court will accept this argument. Above all, in this case, Special Forces Commander Kwak Jong-geun stated that he received an institution to take control two days before martial law's submission from former Defense Minister Kim Yong-hyun and was instructed by President Yoon Suk Yeol to bring out lawmakers directly in a situation where emergency martial law was declared and it was quite urgent.

Hong Jang-hyun, the former first deputy director of the National Intelligence Service, also makes similar statements, and various statements have been made by Yeo In-hyeong, the chief of the counterintelligence command, to receive a list to be arrested and to identify facilities to be detained. The facts of this case have yet to be confirmed.It is true that there is a high possibility of establishing a rebellion crime because the special forces block the National Assembly and the counterintelligence agency is expected to eventually take over.

[Anchor]
So far, I've been with lawyer Park Sung-bae.