[Issue ON] "Judge Lee Jae-myung, who is not guilty, is also trying to arrest him"...the judiciary's 'revolt'

■ Host: Anchor Kim Youngsoo Kim, Anchor Lee Ha-rin
■ Starring: Reporter Kim Youngsoo Kim, Attorney Kim Kwang-sam

* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information. Please specify [YTN NewsON] when quoting.

[Anchor]
In addition to the list of martial law military arrests, an incumbent judge who acquitted Lee Jae-myung of the Democratic Party of Korea has been claimed to have been included. It is a situation that can be suspected of attempting to neutralize the judiciary as well as the National Assembly, the legislature, so a big impact is expected. Let's solve it in detail with YTN Youngsoo Kim reporter and lawyer Kim Kwang-sam. Welcome, two of you. An incumbent judge was also included in the arrest list. This is what the police chief, Jo Ji-ho, said?

[Reporter]
First of all, lawyer Noh Jung-hwan, the lawyer of the National Police Agency Commissioner Jo Ji-ho, claims. After martial law was declared, counterintelligence commander Yeo In-hyeong asked to confirm the location of 15 people. The National Police Agency Commissioner Jo Ji-ho claims that this included Judge Kim Dong-hyun, who acquitted Lee Jae-myung of perjury. In the case of famous politicians, they would know the name of Commissioner Jo Ji-ho, but they asked because they were unfamiliar with it. Who is this person? Then, Commander Yeo In-hyeong specifically mentioned that Lee Jae-myung was a judge who acquitted him. Earlier, Kim Dae-ho, head of the counterintelligence investigation team, mentioned the list of 14 people. But if you add up, there are 15 people. In fact, the first claim about Judge Kim Dong-hyun was made this time, but the name was not included in the police report.

[Anchor]
The reason why the name is not included in the police report is that it was missing when investigated?

[Reporter]
I think we should look at it like that first.

[Anchor]
If it's true that you were missing from the record and your lawyer stated it separately, and if this is true, what crime would it be if you tried to arrest a judge?

[Kim Kwang Sam]
That's a big deal. The most important thing right now is the legality of emergency martial law. Is it a violation of the Constitution or the law? You're questioning whether it's a crime of rebellion or not. However, the crime of rebellion itself does not include murder. Then the rider will be punished for murder. You'll be punished for an attempted punishment. Even the conspiracy to kill is punished. So even if this has nothing to do with murder. Trying to make an arrest itself could constitute abuse of authority. Then we can get some details about what to do by arresting them, a lot of confinement. I think it can vary depending on the content. Most importantly, if this is true, isn't arresting someone for making a judgment that is different from his or her idea on the premise of punishment?

Then, the term punishment is written in the decree, and the purpose of imprisonment or conviction through a military court trial is clear, so not only can this be seen as a failure of a tremendous amount of work against the judiciary, but it is also a very important part of the reason for impeachment regarding the crime of rebellion.

[Anchor]
If so, former Chief Justice Kim Myung-soo and former Supreme Court Justice Kwon Soon-il. I'm a Supreme Court justice.Ma, why do you think former Supreme Court Justice Kim Myung-soo and former Supreme Court Justice Kwon Soon-il went in?

[Reporter]
I think we need to check if this list came out from the president of Yoon Suk Yeol. Aren't you saying that the list came out to the counterintelligence commander? Of course, if all the charges of the counterintelligence commander are admitted, we will have to find out who was instructed by. I think it will be difficult to estimate the meaning of the list now.

[Anchor]
But why didn't Commissioner Jo Ji-ho talk about this when he was investigated by the police when he attempted to arrest a judge like this would have a great impact?

[Kim Kwang Sam]
I don't know why. The police said Judge Kim Dong-hyun was probably in it, but they won't put him in the record. Then, I think there is a high possibility that the police made a statement, excluding Judge Kim Dong-hyun from this list. And what's more, this is an incumbent judge, although all the targets in the arrest group are important, right? Judge Kim Dong-hyun. Furthermore, he was the one who acquitted Lee Jae-myung in connection with his perjury teacher. As a result, it seems that Judge Kim Dong-hyun thought that it was Lee Jae-myung who laid the groundwork for his comeback. Those involved or from President Yoon's point of view. That's why he didn't talk about this intentionally when the police investigated it, but why did he say this at the warrant review stage? There's actually a bit of a mystery about that.

[Anchor]
In the argument of the lawyer of the National Police Agency Commissioner Jo Ji-ho, he attempted to arrest the judge, and this argument came out and I'm telling you. There's also another argument. It is said that President Yoon called Director Jo Ji-ho six times and ordered him to arrest a lawmaker. We'll continue with the conversation after hearing the related recording.

For lawyer Kim Kwang-sam, this search and seizure is not going on right now. Shouldn't we respond to the seizure and search because we've legally obtained a warrant?

[Kim Kwang Sam]
The principle is that. According to the Criminal Procedure Act, it says that you can reject it for security reasons or military secrets. So, it was the same when former President Park Geun Hye was impeached because the manager who managed it was allowed to reject it. Until now, there has never been a proper search and seizure related to the presidential office. And most of them received it in the form of voluntary submission and used it as evidence. If you receive it in the form of a voluntary submission, this is quite difficult. Because you can't receive everything you want to receive, and the person who voluntarily submits it decides the subject of the seizure and search.

[Anchor]
Maybe I can take out what I need and give it to you?

[Kim Kwang Sam]
That's right. But when I said this for national secrecy and security, it becomes a problem when it comes to revealing the truth of rebellion or various entities because of this provision. As a result, there may be some difficulties in the progress of the investigation as the security service continues to reject it.

[Anchor]
I heard the contents of the National Assembly's pending questions today. There's a lot of talk about non-Phone. You can't record the non-Phone, but you only leave the call details, right?

[Kim Kwang Sam]
That's right.

[Anchor]
Can it work enough as evidence?

[Kim Kwang Sam]
It's an unfamiliar term to call it a non-Phone. Don't you talk a lot about security phones? However, if you try to make a call related to secrets related to state secrets, security, and state affairs, this should not be recorded. In some cases, it shouldn't be bugged. In some cases, can't North Korea eavesdrop? So since I have a secret phone, it can be said that this is a very secure phone, but it also leaves traces on my phone. So there is a server that connects it, and all the contents remain in that server. So through the search and seizure of the server, you can check what kind of calls were made and what the contents were, and various numbers and things like that.

[Anchor]
I'll ask the Youngsoo Kim reporter for the breaking news of the investigation. Police Commissioner Jo Ji-ho and Seoul Commissioner Kim Bong-sik, are you done with the warrant review?

[Reporter]
You've probably seen it on the news when you go in for a screening. In the case of National Police Agency Commissioner Jo Ji-ho, he attended the warrant review himself. However, Seoul Mayor Kim Bong-sik gave up the warrant review. As early as today, it will be decided whether to arrest him or not, but in the case of Commissioner Jo Ji-ho, his lawyer said he is suffering from cancer. I think I'll talk about this a lot because I was diagnosed with stage 2 blood cancer. You're emphasizing that there's no fear of escaping. Maybe we need to see how this will be accepted by the court.

[Anchor]
These two, Police Commissioner Jo Ji-ho and Seoul Commissioner Kim Bong-sik. I heard you met the president of Yoon Suk Yeol at the safe house three hours before martial law.

[Reporter]
Stories from that time are coming out in more detail, but it was confirmed that they gathered in a safe house three hours before the martial law was declared, and a police investigation showed. Commissioner Jo Ji-ho said at first that he knew about the declaration of martial law by watching TV.

[Anchor]
That's why the statement keeps changing.

[Reporter]
It is said that Commissioner Jo Ji-ho reversed this story when he was investigated by the police. In fact, he said he met the president there, and the president gave a piece of paper containing a mission to police chief Cho Ji-ho and Seoul chief Kim Bong-sik on the spot. However, in the case of Police Commissioner Lee Jo Ji-ho, he said he brought it home and tore it apart. The police judged this to be an attempt to destroy evidence. On top of that, the judge who acquitted Lee Jae-myung, who I mentioned earlier, was also mentioned by Commissioner Jo Ji-ho through his lawyer. What I just said was revealed by the police investigation. One more thing was mentioned earlier that President Yoon Suk Yeol called six times and ordered the lawmakers to be arrested. This is also known as a non-phonic phone now.

[Anchor]
Commissioner Jo Ji-ho is very cooperative with the investigation ahead of the screening. Do you have this intention to reduce the sentence?

[Kim Kwang Sam]
I'm sure that's the intention. What he's talking about now is that he's been muttering three times. You're saying you turned this down even though you asked for location tracking of your arrest? And as I said earlier, we met three hours before martial law was declared at Anga, and the Seoul Metropolitan Police Agency all met there. So I came home and discussed with my wife about the place that was written on it.
It's about tearing it apart.

Then didn't you call six times and ask them to arrest the lawmakers? I didn't hear that either. He also said that the National Assembly instructed lawmakers not to allow their aides to enter, but he allowed them to go over the wall. So as a result, I was instructed and did some implementation, but I did this very passively. So I had no choice but to follow the instructions, so I didn't actively do it, that's why I'm saying that. But I think we need to check whether the words are reliable or not. The credibility of Commissioner Lee Jo Ji-ho's words was found out through media reports because of how he first learned martial law, right? There's no credibility there. Why did he hide such information even though he went to a safe house three hours ago to talk with the president and received an A4 paper containing instructions? Then, I think we need to look at whether there is anything else that follows the instructions other than the fact that we have protested three times at the warrant review stage and with various things revealed.

[Anchor]
As you said, I'm changing my words and now I'm talking in confession of my conscience, does this help me reduce my sentence?

[Kim Kwang Sam]
That's right. He denies everything without self-reflection, and if he says he didn't know, he never participated in it. If you say that like that, it means that there's no affection for the war. So there could be a difference in sentence. There are some aspects like that from your point of view, but you can't hide it by hiding it. It's because you're not the only one involved, but the Seoul Metropolitan Police Agency chief is under the direction and there are police officers, aren't there? Since there are many police officers who have executed, just because it's not you doesn't mean it's concluded like this. So if this is all true, but since we can't hide it all anyway, we're likely to make a statement like that with the intention of telling everything the truth.

[Anchor]
During the emergency martial law, new facts after the war continued to emerge. Yeo In-hyeong, commander of the South Korean military's counterintelligence command. You asked for a warrant?

[Reporter]
The prosecution summoned former counterintelligence commander Yeo In-hyeong twice and investigated him as a suspect. I requested an arrest warrant today. This is the person who came out when Director Jo Ji-ho talked about it earlier. It was Yeo In-hyeong, the counterintelligence commander, who called out the list.

[Anchor]
You're asking me to locate you, right?

[Reporter]
I called the list and asked them to locate it. Since I am a soldier, I think I will be reviewed for a warrant by the military court. The National Assembly is suspected of sending troops to the NEC and, as I said, attempting to arrest key figures, as the head of the counterintelligence investigation team said, check the B1 bunker in the water defense. There are testimonies that they even gave specific instructions like this.

[Anchor]
I wonder why you sent martial law troops to the NEC and how much you were involved in writing the decree. We prepared related graphics for the part where we sent troops to the NEC. There is an analysis that the content is similar to the conspiracy theory of far-right YouTubers.

[Kim Kwang Sam]
There were stories like that. And now, quite a lot of people in the conservatives are almost certain that there was a rigged election and make a lot of claims about it. Moreover, far-right YouTubers have made that a reality. We usually base our conspiracy theories on the ground. Then, there are cases where people who didn't believe in it actually fall in love with it, thinking that it could happen. So far-right YouTubers continued to raise conspiracy theories in that way, and maybe the president didn't say that in his discourse, but I think he was quite immersed in it. As a result, he seems to have thought that he could win the April 10 general elections unconditionally. And he also made another statement on medical reform. It is said that the staff also said that they judged that public opinion would turn completely to support.

But the result was completely different from that. That's why he seems to think that this is related to North Korea, and that the election was rigged, but objectively, he is elected president, but in his opinion, this was not an election that he would win with 0.73 percent, right? That's the only presidential election that will be more than 10% different. But if we think about it, the ruling party won the local election overwhelmingly, didn't it? Can it be called a rigged election? I don't think about that, and I'm just going to lose in an imminent general election, and I'm wondering how the president can think about it in that way, without thinking about whether it's the president or the president and his wife.

[Anchor]
Today's broadcaster Kim Eo-jun attended the National Assembly's National Defense and claimed an assassination team. He told me that he received a tip.

[Reporter]
That hasn't been confirmed yet, so it's hard for us to say it here. Since there are various suspicions, I think the police and the prosecution should look into those areas.

[Anchor]
There must be a lot of reports. How do you see those reports?

[Kim Kwang-sam] The content of
is so absurd that I wonder if it can be real. But even before that, we said that the declaration of emergency martial law was like a ridiculous novel, but in fact, this was accomplished. So, what is the basis for this information itself? However, according to Kim Eo-jun's story, he said that he heard from an ally country where the embassy is located.

an ally country with our embassy So I didn't say where it was, but on the other hand, he said he heard it from an intelligence agent in the Armed Forces Intelligence Command. So I don't know if this is really fake news. The content is something that we'll be very shocked and shocked by. The viewers might not know what it's about. On the premise that this is an unconfirmed fact. First of all, an assassination team in a North Korean military uniform will arrest representative Han Dong-hoon, Kim Eo-jun, and Cho Kuk, while CEO Han Dong-hoon will arrest and kill the rest of them, Kim Eo-jun, I don't remember Cho Kuk. These three are from the progressive side. These people are going to let go. The reason for his release was that North Korea showed some kindness to the left, and Han Dong-hoon, the leader of the ruling party in North Korea, killed him. Then, they hide North Korean military clothes and make them find them. Then, all of this is the work of the North Korean military, so there is also this content. Then there's the content of killing Americans and making the U.S. bomb North Korea, and this is so absurd that it's something that needs to be confirmed in the future investigation process.

[Anchor]
What you said is that broadcaster Kim Eo-jun attended the National Assembly's National Defense Department today and received a report. Once again, I would like to remind you that it has not been confirmed yet. And today, we talked about the golden phone. The prosecution is investigating the allegations of Myung Tae-kyun separately, and there are rumors that they found a golden phone and submitted it.

[Reporter]
Didn't Myung Tae-kyun's lawyer say that during the investigation? If there is one, I said I would give it to the Democratic Party or submit it to the media, but I think that's probably secured. There were various suspicions, and there were predictions and analyses that the mobile phone would contain a lot of everything, so it would be better to wait and see what else would come out of it and what direction the investigation would proceed.

[Anchor]
In the background of declaring martial law, there was also talk that this golden phone could be in the background of President Yoon's declaration of martial law.

[Kim Kwang Sam]
There were a lot of stories like that. So the ostensible reason is whether it is the re-decision of the special prosecutor's office against Kim Gun-hee, and then the president's martial law for various reasons such as the impeachment of the Board of Audit and Inspection, the prosecutor's impeachment, and so on. There were a lot of suspicions about Kim Gun-hee, but on the other hand, there are things that the public would be really surprised to know about in the golden phone related to Myung Tae-kyun. If it is known to the outside world, the president will be impeached, and it will have a huge impact on Kim Gun-hee's special prosecution. Didn't the president There were a lot of speculations and stories like that.

But this is also unconfirmed, so I'm just speculating and thinking about it as Kada news. But maybe this part can also be related to emergency martial law if some stories about the president and his wife come out in the future regarding the golden phone. And since we are investigating the crime of rebellion, there is a possibility that the investigative agency will check the reason for the emergency martial law in the process of investigating the reason for the emergency martial law.

[Anchor]
I'll give you the last question. When do you think a direct investigation into President Yoon will be possible?

[Kim Kwang-sam]
First of all, former Minister Kim Yong-hyun has been arrested. Yeo In-hyeong, the counterintelligence commander, has a warrant. Then, the two most important people in martial law were arrested except for the leader. You were arrested and asked for a warrant. Yeo In-hyeong, commander of counterintelligence, said, "I think the warrant is issued when I see it, I think we can look at it like this. Then you can see that a large part of the investigation has been conducted by the prosecution, and the prosecution's investigation speed is much faster than the police when it comes to new recruits. The police are now just analyzing the raid. The prosecution's investigation is speeding up in a very essential part because some witnesses have been investigated and only police leaders have requested a warrant. As you can see this, both agencies can also conduct investigations into the president competitively, but the police seem to be doing it a little bit cautiously, and the prosecution seems to be continuously quick to proceed with the investigation toward the president.

[Anchor]
That's all for today. So far, I've pointed it out with YTN Youngsoo Kim reporter and lawyer Kim Kwang-sam. Thank you very much. Thank you.