President Yoon's impeachment bill was affected...Han Dong-hoon's regime is on the verge of collapse.

■ Host: Park Seok-won Anchor
■ Starring: Cho Chung-rae, former vice president of Yeouido Institute, Cho Dae-hyun, former head of the Office of the Prime Minister,

* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information. Please specify [YTN News Special] when quoting.

[Anchor]
Yoon's impeachment bill crossed the threshold of the National Assembly yesterday. After twists and turns, the National Assembly passed, but the aftermath is strong in the political world. The ruling party is accelerating the collapse of representative Han Dong-hoon's system. Let's summarize the impact of the president's impeachment with the two. Cho Chung-rae, former vice president of the Yeouido Institute, and Cho Dae-hyun, former head of the civil affairs office of the Prime Minister's Office. Please come in. President Yoon's impeachment was passed last evening. There were 204 votes in favor and 85 against, so shall we start with the implications of this vote?

[Cho Dae-hyun]
First of all, it's a relief. The people have been fighting the cold on asphalt for about 12 days since December 3rd, waiting for the results yesterday. Anyway, although the National Assembly is not a satisfactory number, did the National Assembly still open its ears to the people's voices? Of course, you have to analyze all the numbers, but it's not at a satisfactory level. The people's desire seems to have wanted a much higher level of parliamentary decision, but it is somewhat incomplete, but I think it was a fortunate result in this regard that President Yoon's most dangerous military command was limited.

[Anchor]
You said that you were over the quorum but were not satisfied, how did you see it?

[Cho Cheong-rae]
It's actually an unfortunate situation because it's the third time in constitutional history. Anyway, it's emergency martial law Jungkook. I think that the various confusion caused by the emergency martial law crisis, economic conditions, financial markets, and people's confusion can be somewhat ended and an opportunity to enter a period of stability. However, when looking at the size of the people's power departure vote, there were fewer active departures than the media predicted. There were about 5 votes, but it was 12 votes. Since there were seven people who publicly declared their support for impeachment, it seems that the scale of active departure is not large. In addition, considering this situation in line with the party's approval of Representative Han Dong-hoon's impeachment and President Yoon's departure, the controversy within the party over the size of the departure vote or the future leadership system is rekindling.

[Anchor]
When looking at the opposition vote alone, there were 12 votes, so seven people openly agreed, and within the power of the people. So, from 12 votes yesterday, at least 5 votes were left. Some observers say that the number of lawmakers who have rejected the party's theory could be more than 20 if abstention and invalid votes are included.

[Cho Dae-hyun]
That's right. Looking at this situation, various numbers come out. The number that I noticed when I first went through the December 3rd incident is 18. There are some Democrats who couldn't attend that day. So, there are many reasons, such as being in the countryside or being late in recognizing the situation. Didn't 18 people follow Han Dong-hoon when they voted to lift martial law? Some of them came over the wall. Looking back over time, I think that it was natural in a way and that it happened, but from the situation at that time, you might have felt very life threats and things like that. Nevertheless, 18 people participated in this, especially in the case of Rep. Kim Ye-ji, don't you say that he tried to cross the wall even though he couldn't see it and eventually couldn't cross it? There's a number like 18. As you said, I think there are 12 votes that participated in the approval. And there were eight invalid votes or abstention votes, and the interpretation of this is different. If you look at it that way, a total of 23 people will be considering such votes. In the future, this part will have a great impact on the power of the people and in the future political situation, especially the power of the people. I think it will be a number that determines various orientations.

[Anchor]
What do you think? Numbers that can determine the direction, 23 votes, do you agree with this?

[Cho Cheong-rae]
Overall, it is correct that there are 23 votes including abstention and invalid votes. However, during the emergency meeting that day, floor leader Kwon Sung-dong said this. Since the rejection is a party theory, lawmakers should go into the plenary session and oppose it. There was a request for abstention or invalidation if it was difficult to enter. So if you look at it from the beginning. 22 people who voted for a standing independent counsel against the insurrection. Then, 34 votes were given to Rep. Kim Tae-ho during the floor leader election process. After that, regardless of party discussion, there are about 20 people who said they would enter the plenary session hall. So, the number of leave votes will be about 20 votes, which the ruling and opposition parties and the media viewed as such. Anyway, many of them turned to invalid votes or abstention votes in the process of reaffirming the opposition party's opinions and cracking down on the lawmakers' votes. This is how they shared their perception of the serious situation and the situation of the party. I don't think it's an active departure for those who invalidated or abstained from
.

[Anchor]
Let's look at the changes in the topography of the party that 23 votes will move in a little while. First, an hour after the impeachment was passed, President Yoon made a statement. Let's see President Yoon's position on the screen.

[Anchor]
There was a message saying I will never give up, where do you think it was focused?

[Cho Cheong-rae]
A few days ago, in the president's second statement, he said he would confidently deal with the investigation or impeachment, and the president organized the battle within the ruling party over the impeachment debate. In addition, in the case of yesterday, the impeachment was passed in the National Assembly for the third time in constitutional history, so it would have been polite for the president to come forward with something. That's why you said it in that sense. He sent out a message yesterday that he would confidently fight the legal principles during the investigation and constitutional trial. Therefore, the declaration of emergency martial law exercised the president's authority under the constitution, and the resolution to lift martial law in accordance with the National Assembly's resolution to lift martial law was also made within the constitutional and legal framework. Therefore, despite the public's criticism, I will confidently argue with the legal principles on this part. You're talking about this will. In addition, it seems that the constitutional order and democracy of the Republic of Korea are also considered proper procedures to be judged in the process of investigation and impeachment. You were talking about that position. I think this is how you talked about it as a courtesy to the people.

[Anchor]
There was also a request for political circles. How do you interpret such a message?

[Cho Dae-hyun]
I don't think there's much difference in attitude or attitude from what we did when we first declared martial law on December 3rd. Of course, you talked in the middle of the first impeachment motion on December 7th in a tone-down manner, but I think the statement on December 12th was a very decisive one, especially in the comprehensive edition. I'm here with the logic that President Yoon Suk Yeol thinks. And in a way, isn't President Yoon Suk Yeol now criticizing a lot about whether he is trapped in a world of his own delusions? That image is all contained in the Dec. 12 statement, and as the impeachment was passed yesterday, his authority was inevitably suspended. As Vice Chairman Cho Cheong-rae said, I will change my posture and fight at the Constitutional Court later, and as a former lawyer, I will fight with the law. These contents are contained in it. That attitude is still very stubborn.

So if we go like this, we have to accept all the results and say that we want the state affairs to be stabilized quickly, but if we go with this attitude, I am worried that we will be able to settle it early. The most absurd thing was that I asked for a politics of deliberation and consideration at the end. Who was the person who ignored and ignored deliberation and consideration the most in Korea right now? Perhaps even if you ask an elementary school student passing by on the street, you'll pick the president of Yoon Suk Yeol.
I think this part is something you should reflect on yourself while looking back, even if you really have to prepare for your own reflection and residence.

[Anchor]
Don't you have past work experience in the Prime Minister's Office? Will Prime Minister Han Duck-soo's acting system remain stable?

[Cho Dae-hyun]
So far, it is very difficult to predict whether it can be maintained stably or not. However, in the case of Prime Minister Han Deok-soo, as it was passed yesterday, I think that the acting system has been legally delegated and taken over all the powers that the president can exercise. However, politically, how far is the role of the acting authority in this situation? A lot of people usually say that. It's called status quo. So, dealing with the current situation and taking necessary measures while maintaining the status quo. In particular, I think these are the biggest roles to focus on easing people's anxiety and then economic stability. But there are a number of demands. I don't know if I can talk about it again later, but in the process, I think this system can falter again whenever I do something that is not appropriate for the status quo.

In that sense, I personally have never worked with Prime Minister Han Deok-soo closely, but I understand the current situation better than anyone else and have a reputation. Prime Minister Han Deok-soo's reputation is generally well-adapted to pending issues. Didn't you work as a public servant for a long time? And I've been through these processes. So, I hope that it will show a reasonable and such attitude.

[Anchor]
You said it only as a passive acting president who maintains the status quo, but the reason why this story comes out is whether acting Han Deok-soo can exercise his veto over various special prosecution laws. What do you think about this?

[Cho Cheong-rae]
It's a matter of extreme interest. However, legally, there is no explicit provision for the authority of the acting president. So you can do it or you can't do it. The object of the greatest interest right now is the possibility of veto and personnel appointments. There has never been a ministerial appointment by an acting president. So we'll discuss the issue separately. As for the veto issue, for example, the incumbent president has been impeached, so I think politically sensitive issues will be taken very carefully in the image of Acting President Han Deok-soo. However, aren't there any policy bills of the Democratic Party that directly contradict the principles of the free economy and the free democratic economy market, such as the grain management law and state administration? I think he will be sensitive to these parts because he has been in public office all his life. I'm sure you're thinking about exercising your veto. It is probably not easy to veto the special prosecutor Kim Gun-hee, related to these political issues, and the sensitive public opinion trends.

[Anchor]
Earlier, the standing special prosecution against the National Assembly was passed, and Han Deok-soo, acting president, was included in it. There were also talks about the next impeachment, the impeachment of acting Prime Minister Han Deok-soo, and whether he is moving on to Choi Sang-mok, the deputy prime minister for economy. At Lee Jae-myung's press conference a while ago, it seems that he was set on maintaining the acting system of Han Deok-soo. Is the current system just continuing?

[Cho Dae-hyun]
I also watched Lee Jae-myung's press conference for a while before entering the show. I saw it, but as I said now, I am responsible for the civil war. And it is also responsible for the existing state administration turmoil. Therefore, while taking the stance that there is a kind of responsibility, but now, it is a situation where you have to perform the duties of an acting agent. I used the expression "First of all." For now, we have announced that we will stop talking about impeachment. That's what I did. The most important issue in the future is the right to veto, to be precise, to request reconsideration. I think the exercise of the right to request reconsideration will become an issue in the future. In general, I agree with what Director Cho said.

However, the most important thing is that in the current situation, acting Han Deok-soo's Ilsung lowered himself first and said he would cooperate with the National Assembly. If so, President Yoon Suk Yeol has ignored the National Assembly in the name of exercising his right to request reconsideration and veto. Didn't you have a lot of vetoes? However, if Prime Minister Han Deok-soo says that Ilsung will lower himself and cooperate with the National Assembly, it is very likely that he will accept what comes from the National Assembly. For example, the grain management method you just mentioned, if you think it's urgent, you'll accept it. I think the National Assembly can reserve this issue again if the government's position is a little more reserved, and if these consultations are made and sympathize with each other. What is important is that this attitude of respecting the judgment of the National Assembly, as I said earlier, is a very important issue.

[Anchor]
Even in the current National Assembly, the most confusing thing among them is the situation within the People's Power Party. In particular, after the impeachment was passed, there are various interpretations of what will happen to representative Han Dong-hoon's future moves, and first of all, he talked about his rejection to the voice calling for his resignation. Let's hear from CEO Han Dong-hoon.

In the case of floor leader Kwon Sung-dong, he is talking about the transition to an emergency committee system, what will happen in the future?

[Cho Cheong-rae]
Now that all five elected supreme council members have expressed their resignation, it should be considered that the leadership has actually entered the process of dissolution. The context is a little different from forming an emergency committee and representative Han Dong-hoon resigning as party leader. Representative Han Dong-hoon said, "I want to tell you this fundamental story that the leadership should take responsibility because the president is impeached in the ruling party. According to the current party constitution regulations, representative Han Dong-hoon's authority as party leader is until the National Committee decides on the emergency committee system. So, the party's authority is automatically suspended after the party's national committee is formed and convened as soon as possible and the emergency committee issue is resolved there. But before that, the problem is who appoints the emergency committee chairman. If the party leader does not voluntarily resign, the party leader or acting party leader will be the chairman of the emergency committee. So, if representative Han Dong-hoon does not do it to the end, a new controversy and controversy could be created within the party over the authority to appoint the emergency committee chairman.

[Anchor]
However, there are many stories about whether representative Han Dong-hoon will be able to hold out at a time when the top committee has expressed its intention to resign.

[Cho Dae-hyun]
Now, I don't know exactly the Party of the People's Power, Constitutional Party, and Regulations. Perhaps it is clearly stipulated in the Party Constitutional Party Regulations, and the authority to interpret the Party Constitutional Party Regulations was like a party committee in the past if it were the Democratic Party, but now I don't know exactly the Party Constitutional Party Regulations. Perhaps it is worth looking at where the power of the people is when the interpretation of the party constitution is controversial. There are several problems that CEO Han Dong-hoon is facing now. First, as the leader of the party, there is a question of what fate the party will face and what course the party will take in the future. If you hang in there as you said earlier, this won't end easily. As I said a while ago, there is a possibility of such controversy as going through the process of interpretation by various authoritative institutions. There's a problem like that. Another thing I thought was strange was that when analyzing the numbers you mentioned earlier, didn't you get various numbers?

Then, is this the people who opposed Han Dong-hoon's representative Yun? What I want to ask is that the anti-Korean front has been built for a long time. So, rather than fighting to protect President Yoon Suk Yeol, at least the last 85, that is, the final 85 people opposed to the impeachment motion, right? There were more than I thought. I don't believe that 85 people took the public's criticism to protect President Yoon Suk Yeol.

Then you've already entered a power struggle. As for Han Dong-hoon, I think there are already about 85 people who say they can't follow CEO Han Dong-hoon as a leader. In this situation, what I really want to ask CEO Han Dong-hoon and what I want to say to the entire power of the people is that the role of the ruling party has already ended. If so, you have to make really serious and important decisions that will be reborn as a party of how to lead conservative supporters, not the ruling party, I think.

[Anchor]
In the first place, when there was pressure from the pro-Yoon-gye over the transition to the emergency committee, if more than four of the five elected supreme council members resign, it would be converted to the emergency committee, so Jang Dong-hyuk, the supreme council member, was considered a weak link, but Jin Jong-oh, the supreme council member, also resigned. As a result, there are observations that cracks within the close system and cracks in the close system may occur, so what do you think about this?

[Cho Cheong-rae]
I think there are two reasons for that. First of all, the weight of being a member of the People's Power leadership and a member of the Supreme Council must have been different after the impeachment. So, we need to think about the people's rebukes and stinging eyes. They must have been alarmed that it is necessary to take responsibility because they have to think about their political future. The second reason is that this time, representative Han Dong-hoon came to the fore and spoke in favor of impeachment, and then convened an ethics committee to expel the president and take action against him, so didn't you predict that a significant number of close Dong-hoon lawmakers in the party would follow suit? However, when I opened the lid, it was shown that the power that directly responded to the command of CEO Han Dong-hoon was insignificant. And since the close class has become less and less established in the face of impeachment and it has become quite difficult to open up political prospects in the future, they also believe that holding out any longer will have a stigma effect that builds up negative images that are not in their favor. I think Jang Dong-hyuk, the supreme council member, changed his position after agonizing at the end. Jin Jong-oh, the supreme council member, is probably on that side.

[Anchor]
In the future, it seems to be a part to watch for such changes in the topography of the people's power within the party. The impeachment process has now been completed, and the ball has been passed on to the Constitutional Court. In the past two presidential impeachment trials, it took about two months for former President Roh Moo Hyun, and in the case of former President Park Geun Hye, it took about three months, but there were observations that it would not take that long this time.

[Cho Dae-hyun]
The general opinion seems to be that there are many opinions that the time will be shorter or similar than before, as the anchor said. For that reason, the sentence itself has been lengthened, but the second time, it is focused on the content that the prosecution submitted by the Democratic Party violated the National Assembly, which is the crime of rebellion. Before that, there were various issues related to Kim Gun-hee. But briefly, because I saw that this was enough, those things were reduced and proceeded, so some say that it was done on purpose to proceed quickly. And secondly, as soon as this result came out yesterday, the Constitutional Court's position came out. Are you a spokesperson for the Constitutional Court? Looking at the position, I will proceed fairly and quickly. That's what I said. It's unusual to say it's fast in itself. But is it meaningful next April? As far as I know, the term of office of the two judges will end again around April next year.

If you look at it that way, there is a higher possibility that it will proceed quickly, I see it like this. However, Article 51 of the Constitutional Law is controversial. According to Article 51 of the Constitutional Act, it can be stopped if a criminal lawsuit against the same person proceeds. It is not an item that should be done because it is said that this part can be done. And the possibility is open, but I don't know what will happen, because this is a little different from what was said in the last impeachment of President Park Geun Hye. I think that these things will work in combination and proceed.

[Anchor]
As mentioned, Article 51 of the Constitutional Court Act, this part is also a variable, and two constitutional judges will retire in April next year. And isn't there still six people? We plan to finalize the recommendation of the other three within this year, but how do you think these variables will work?

[Cho Cheong-rae]
There are some different analysis of the tendencies of the six constitutional judges. Some people classify their tendencies as two progressives and four moderate conservatives.

[Anchor]
That's what the graphic says right now.

[Cho Cheong-rae]
It's different, but it's like that. Nine constitutional judges are three recommended by the president, three recommended by the chief justice, and three recommended by the National Assembly. Two of them were recommended by President Moon Jae In, and only one was recommended by President Yoon Suk Yeol. Then, the Supreme Court's recommendation was made by former Supreme Court Justice Kim Myung-soo and one by Justice Cho Hee-dae. But of course, the appointment was made during the presidency of Yoon Suk Yeol. So if you look at the recommendation procedure, it's 4:2. If you look at the media reports that analyzed the propensity, you may see it as 2:4. However, since the Democratic Party of Korea recommended two people and the people recommended one person, the overall composition does not necessarily mean that it is advantageous for conservatives. It's a question of whether it's 4:5 or 5:4. If there are more than three out of nine people, so if there are more than six people in favor, wouldn't it be approved? So, more than four of you have to oppose it when it's composed of nine people. It's a situation where it's dismissed, so it's hard to judge and predict based on your disposition.

[Anchor]
Since he was a former prosecutor general, isn't there a possibility that he will appear in person at President Yoon's Constitutional Court and plead? There are already situations where we are preparing. Will this be a variable?

[Cho Dae-hyun]
In general, I think that the public's trust in the constitutional judges is relatively high. There are various controversies over whether the Constitutional Court should be completed or not, but I think it is right to complete the constitution by completing 9 people and proceeding as it is a serious matter. Isn't there more intermediate compensation when it is composed like that? So it's true that there are also a number of concerns about this ruling. However, during the impeachment of President Park Geun Hye, there was a lot of moderate conservatism. Nevertheless, as far as I can remember, it was all-in-one. I remember doing that. From the perspective of his qualifications as a constitutional judge and what the people demand, there is no big enough problem. This is because the issue of rebellion itself is too serious and the people know it. So there's not much room for this to be argued by law, I think so.

As I said in the broadcast yesterday, how seriously did you violate the Constitution in the deliberation and judgment of the Constitutional Court? It largely deals with the issue of the materiality of how gravely it violated the law and the Constitution. So it's not a quantitative issue. The seriousness doesn't mean how many and how many. How bad is it? In the end, I think it's public opinion on this part. I think we can't help but consider what the people are thinking right now. I think the judges of the Constitutional Court will reflect the people's severe anxiety and the people's feeling that the constitution is violated and that the law is violated. On top of that, I don't think progressives and conservatives will judge very differently.

[Anchor]
In the midst of this, CEO Lee Jae-myung held a press conference about an hour ago. Let's not even say that the ruling and opposition parties are together. That's what I said. What did you think of this proposal when you proposed the formation of a bipartisan national stability consultative body?

[Cho Cheong-rae]
Isn't this what we're talking about, let's create a National Security Council? It's about the ruling and opposition parties cooperating, but what it has, the message is good. However, the meaning of the content is that there is a content that presses acting Han Deok-soo. So what this means is that the ruling and opposition parties agree to form a national stability consultative body and pass the difficult impeachment trial period. Then in the process, can Prime Minister Han Deok-soo veto the Democratic Party's proposal or something like this? So I think the intention to restrict this is within. And it's composed of very partisan content. The words themselves are organized smoothly. Hurry up and investigate. Do it quickly, accurately. Then, at least speed up the impeachment proceedings of the Constitutional Court. Next, let's create a national stability consultative body, don't you mean? The words say that we need to stabilize the state of affairs and take care of people's livelihoods, but I think they contain the consciousness and confidence that the Democratic Party holds the key to the political situation.

[Anchor]
How did you like it?

[Cho Dae-hyun]
I looked at the contents big, so I saw it for a moment. First, there was a word of consolation for the people who had been in the process until yesterday and also a word of appreciation for the people's achievement of this. Secondly, there was a proposal for the State Security Council you just mentioned. And thirdly, there was an order from the acting Han Deok-soo to go according to this system for the time being. At the end, I think that's how the comment on the Han Deok-soo system might feel. As Vice Chairman Cho said, "However, it is not a prime minister nominated by the ruling party, but a request to play a role as a neutral prime minister regardless of political factions." I think this word itself can be accepted as this word itself. And the most important issue among the three is the proposal of the State Security Council. Not long ago, as the situation turned to the impeachment phase, the biggest concern for many people was the concern about economic problems. On the economic issue, Bloomberg said yesterday that uncertainty will be reduced in Korea.

However, other specialized institutions still said that the unstable political situation in Korea could lead to a longer period of uncertainty. In fact, not long ago, when there was a controversy over impeachment, even the head of the Financial Supervisory Service appointed by President Yoon Suk Yeol said impeachment was better at resolving economic uncertainty. So, in the economy, uncertainty has a very large negative effect. If so, the core of the current state affairs stability council will be the low-income economy and economic stability. This is not a matter for the opposition to step up. This is a problem that the ruling party should have done originally. Long before this situation arrived, the ruling party should take responsibility for this. Even if other issues are left alone, the people can only trust when the ruling party leads the economic problem, even if the ruling party makes concessions on political issues. As I said earlier, the Democratic Party of Korea decided to hold an emergency economic inspection meeting, which is the core of today's discussion.

I need to see the current national situation as a crisis. So far, the economy is normal, there are many exogenous variables, but this should not be accelerated further because of the political situation in Korea. If so, the ruling party or the opposition party. Where are the ruling and opposition parties now? We have to save the country. If you look at it that way, I hope you accept Representative Lee Jae-myung's proposal without interpreting it politically, I personally think so.

[Anchor]
From a political point of view, some opposition parties say that they are running for president, but it is premature, but as the early presidential election has become visible, there is also a theory that Lee Joon-seok, a member of the New Reform Party, will be in his 40s. Mayor Oh Se-hoon, Mayor of Hong Joon Pyo, and the Democratic Party of Korea also have a little detected movement of several dragonflies, so what do you think about this?

[Cho Cheong-rae]
The Democratic Party has already become Lee Jae-myung's one-party system and Lee Jae-myung's Democratic Party through the last general election. After the general election, there was no meaning of non-mainstreaming within the Democratic Party. I believe that there is no force within the Democratic Party to oppose representative Lee Jae-myung. So, even if the presidential election takes place within 60 days after the Constitutional Court ruling, the Democratic Party of Korea can go to the presidential system in a single order. The problem with this is the passport. In the case of 2016, the government immediately promulgated the presidential election schedule after the decision to dismiss the president. The schedule had to be held within two months, so the ruling party held a presidential race in three weeks at the time. in about 20 days So, from the perspective of the ruling party, whether impeachment is cited or dismissed, it is possible for the Jamryongs to express their position publicly after that. Before that, considering that this is a situation where we can't talk about it now, the Democratic Party of Korea is in full swing with regard to the presidential election. The power of the people is the same as holding a stone to a very urgent and urgent task.

[Anchor]
Do you have anything to add?

[Cho Dae-hyun]
Yesterday, ahead of the impeachment, spokesman Noh Jong-myeon said that he should be extra careful about his words and actions when announcing the results of the general meeting. Now what's left has been credited to the Constitutional Court, but I think the credit has been given to the Democratic Party. Is the Democratic Party really showing its ability to take over? Is it giving the people a sense of trust? This is a part that you need to thoroughly reflect on yourself. Through that, I think that the Democratic Party can also have an opportunity in the future.

[Anchor]
I see. Let's stop here. So far, I have been with Cho Chung-rae, former vice president of the Yeouido Institute, and Cho Dae-hyun, former head of the civil affairs office of the Prime Minister's Office. Thank you.