"Leading the Insurrection" Kim Yong Hyun is under arrest...Yoon, should we speed up the "forced investigation"?

■ Host: Um Ji-min Anchor, Choi Doo-hee Anchor
■ Starring: Attorney Kim Kwang-sam


* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information. Please specify [YTN Newswide] when quoting.

[Anchor]
The National Assembly passed the impeachment motion against Acting President Han Deok-soo. The power of the people immediately filed for a power dispute trial and a temporary suspension of effectiveness. The first trial of President Yoon Suk Yeol's impeachment trial was also held yesterday. Along with the impeachment trial, we will look back on the investigation into the alleged rebellion. Attorney Kim Kwang-sam is here. Hello,

The National Assembly passed the impeachment motion against Acting President Han Deok-soo yesterday, and the ruling and opposition parties have been sharply divided over the quorum of votes. We will listen to Chairman Woo Won-sik's judgment and the position of the people's power in this regard. As you can see, the opposition-led impeachment motion against acting Han Deok-soo was passed at the National Assembly yesterday, and in fact, the ruling and opposition parties have been quite divided over the quorum of approval. Even now, there was a commotion. However, in the end, National Assembly Speaker Woo Won-sik said that it was an impeachment of his position and set a quorum of 151 seats. What is the opinion of the legal profession on this?

[Kim Kwang Sam]
This itself is unprecedented in the history of the Constitution. So if you have the position of prime minister, you can impeach by a majority. However, he is not the prime minister, but an acting president. Then, will you see the acting president based on the president? You can use all the duties that the president can use. That's why there's no provision in the law for this. in a constitution or law As a result, there is a book called President of the Constitutional Court, which was published quite a long time ago, considering that it is now controversial.

As for the acting president, it is based on the president, so it can be approved only with the approval of more than 200 seats, and the National Assembly Legislative Investigation Office clearly has this theory and that theory. So I think this is controversial. Personally, I think the position of exercising the powers of the prime minister and the president is different. That's why I personally have that opinion that more than 200 seats are needed.

Because if you impeach someone with more than 150 acting seats, you can continue to impeach someone in the position of president. Then, there is instability in the state affairs and the purpose of the acting president itself can be meaningless in a way. I think it should be more than 200 seats, but I think it is right for the chairman of the National Assembly to pass it with 151 seats and then get the judgment of the Constitutional Court. This is because the speaker of the National Assembly is not a place to interpret, judge, and decide on his own in the quorum of decisions. And so does the power of the people, and so does the Democratic Party. Then, I think it is right for the Constitutional Court to make a judgment on this.

[Anchor]
Another reason for the opposition's impeachment is a mixture of what he has done as prime minister and what he has done as acting president. What do you think of this part?

[Kim Kwang Sam]
However, from the opposition camp's point of view, it is meaningless whether it is mixed or not because 151 seats or more can be impeached. If you think it's right to impeach the acting president by more than 200 seats, the fact is that the mixture itself can be quite meaningful. Because when you're an acting president and if there's a reason for impeachment, there should be more than 200 seats. So the truth is that we're going on a path that we've never been to before. As a result, the situation in which the ruling and opposition parties continue to fight over what is in their favor is becoming more confusing.

[Anchor]
As you said, the ball is now left to the Constitutional Court's judgment, but the people's power has applied for a power dispute trial and an injunction to suspend its effectiveness. However, acting Han Deok-soo said he would wait for the Constitutional Court's judgment, but he did not take any action. Is it possible to proceed even if someone other than the party makes such a request for a dispute trial?

[Kim Kwang Sam]
If this is related to your acting authority, the person concerned should do it. However, Prime Minister Han Deok-soo means that he will just accept things related to him. That's why the power dispute is being judged and the suspension of effect is being imposed on the power of the people. The People's Power violated the voting rights of the People's Power lawmakers because more than 200 seats needed to approve it, but it was approved. That's why the National Assembly's impeachment itself should be accepted by the provisional disposition because it is a power dispute trial and the suspension of effect is a nullification of the right to vote, as I said. So I think it's right to apply. Therefore, the Constitutional Court's decision on whether to do this as soon as possible can prevent confusion in state affairs early.

[Anchor]
As you said, the Constitutional Court is currently in this position to quickly proceed with matters related to the impeachment trial of the president. But do you think Prime Minister Han's issues will be decided quickly?

[Kim Kwang Sam]
I need to hurry up and do it. I don't know what a dispute trial will be like, but the suspension of validity disposition is very quick. Furthermore, if the outcome of the provisional disposition is delayed, something irreparable may occur. So in the past, the Constitutional Court proceeded fairly quickly with the provisional disposition, but the difference from the general provisional disposition is that the acting president is at stake. Then acting president has something to do with his or her status as president.

Then, how can this provisional disposition be issued so quickly? This is a situation that is incredibly intertwined with the current political situation, so unlike the provisional disposition, it is likely to take some time. Moreover, if the previous provisional disposition was not accepted, there was a clear legal and considerable possibility of interpretation, but this time, the constitution and legal institutions are not clear, so I think the result of the provisional disposition is likely to come out a little late.

[Anchor]
Until the results come out, Acting Chief Minister Choi Sang-mok will be in charge, but as the president and the prime minister have been impeached now, the role that Deputy Prime Minister Choi should play has been given to the economy and foreign affairs and security. However, Deputy Prime Minister Choi Sang-mok said yesterday, "The acting role of acting president is very limited.That's what I said. It's the first time in our constitutional history, so I'm curious about how this will go.

[Kim Kwang Sam]
That's right. Something that shouldn't be happening right now is happening. So, Deputy Prime Minister for Economy Choi Sang-mok is acting as the acting president, acting as the Prime Minister, the Minister of Strategy and Finance, and the Deputy Prime Minister for Economy. Then, many of our arguments so far are not stipulated in the law, but the acting president should exercise only some status quo power. This is mainly the opinion of experts and the political community. But how will the acting president see it?
But legally, he is an acting president who can exercise the president's authority.

However, will this allow the acting president to exercise the president's power almost equivalent to that of the president? There's a problem with this part. That's why it's the same for both women and women. What they want is for the acting president to exercise it, and they can and should not exercise it. So in a way, we both say we're double standard. The situation is now that you can exercise what is in your favor with a double standard, and you can't exercise what is in your favor. I think we're playing a chicken game right now, like a train running opposite each other.

[Anchor]
You mentioned the chicken game, but the opposition party emphasizes that acting Supreme Court justice should be appointed as soon as possible, and if not appointed again, there is talk of impeachment and impeachment of the members of the State Council. However, if more than five members of the State Council are impeached, it is said that it is not a requirement for the State Council. What do you think about this?

[Kim Kwang-sam]
I think this is what the Democratic Party intends to do, even to put up with that. I don't know if I'll go to the threat or the end. However, the Democratic Party of Korea cannot simply overlook this part because the trial of Chairman Lee Jae-myung is now at stake. Then, if more than five members of the State Council are impeached, the state affairs will be completely paralyzed. Will he go that far and impeach him? That's what we have to watch.

[Anchor]
What did the Democratic Party say was a threatening card to some extent?

[Kim Kwang Sam]
Is it just a threat or will you go? But personally, I've come to be the acting president. Then the last person to act as an acting president is probably the Minister of SMEs and Startups. It's the 10th time. I'm not sure if I'm going to go that far. Or will the acting president listen to what the Democratic Party demands in the middle and stop this? I was talking about the chicken game earlier. It is a situation where we continue to go without consulting each other on things that cannot be conceded to each other. However, I think we should look at the stock market and the appreciation and depreciation of the won against the dollar on Monday as Prime Minister Han Deok-soo is impeached as acting president. So in my view, it's very fatal to the economy. When such a thing comes, it is right that the acting president must make an appointment of a constitutional judge. I'm a person who legally thinks it's right to make an appointment. Even so, I think there is a lot of room for headwinds in some cases in the Democratic Party when it continues to go that way.

[Anchor]
The biggest task that acting Choi Sang-mok is facing now is the appointment of a constitutional judge. What choice do you think you'll make?

[Kim Kwang Sam]
It's your own, indirect, whether it's the current situation. So, as I said earlier, the role of the acting authority has limitations. Then, if you think of this purpose as meaningful, it sounds like you won't do it. So, according to media reports, even the best people I believed in, there are media headlines like this. So, to say that it is probably limited, I will do it within a limited range, so isn't there a high possibility that I won't appoint a constitutional judge because it has no choice but to sound like this? I think we're heading in that direction.

[Anchor]
In the case of Prime Minister Han Deok-soo earlier, he did not appoint him even though he knew that an impeachment bill would be proposed if he did not appoint him. Some point out that it was a bad choice as a suspect of an insurrection, but do you think the investigative agency will also consider this?

[Kim Kwang Sam]
It doesn't matter much. The Democratic Party of Korea has filed a complaint against the suspect of an insurrection. However, there is no room to see that Prime Minister Han Deok-soo was involved in the civil war. There's no evidence. However, former Minister Kim Yong-hyun's lawyer told Prime Minister Han Deok-soo when he told him at the press conference, but he corrected it later. Then, since there was talk of martial law at the Cabinet meeting, this itself cannot be seen as a suspect. And possible reasons for impeachment because it is the purpose of impeachment in the Democratic Party. It also affects the investigation involving the suspect of civil war because it covers all of those things and uses them as reasons for impeachment, which is a completely separate matter.

[Anchor]
Let's talk about the impeachment trial related to President Yoon Suk Yeol. Yesterday, President Yoon Suk Yeol's first hearing preparation date was held, and the lawyers submitted a senior appointment yesterday morning. It ended in about 40 minutes. What did you talk about?

[Kim Kwang-sam]
It's what I expected. First of all, there was a deadline to prepare for the defense that day, but you didn't even pay the appointment of a lawyer before. Then, it is known that he gave a senior appointment at 9:30 that morning. Then, if you look at him legally, he was appointed yesterday morning. if you give a senior position But did the lawyer have time to prepare for this in this enormous impeachment case now? That's why the preparation date for the defense may not come out. However, the Constitutional Court Act is supposed to apply mutatis mutandis to the Criminal Procedure Act, but if it doesn't come out on the hearing preparation date, it can be closed if the person is not present.

From the president's point of view, if it is eventually concluded, the impeachment trial can go a little faster. Therefore, we are not ready for various evidences to submit, whether we should submit an answer or not, by submitting a letter of appointment as a lawyer at the preparation period for the defense.
So I think it's meant to give you more time. So the preparation date for the next trial hearing is January 3rd. But it's probably the 27th to January 3rd, so you might think you earned that time because you have a week.

[Anchor]
How many times do you usually prepare for a hearing?

[Kim Kwang Sam]
Generally, it's a little different from case to case. So, when former President Roh Moo Hyun was impeached, there was no deadline to prepare for his pleading. And as far as I remember, there were three or four times during the former president Park Geun Hye. However, there is a high possibility that the Constitutional Court will not have that many preparatory days for pleading this time. Because unlike former President Park Geun Hye before, this is a crime of rebellion. So what happens to the constitution and the law violations. Of course, there are some other reasons for impeachment other than rebellion. So maybe the Constitutional Court thinks it's going to be fast, so I might close it on the next January 3rd, or maybe I'll do it one more time. That's how I see it.

[Anchor]
In the midst of this, the president's judgment is made too fast. Among the various impeachment cases, I asked the court why the president is impeached first. Let's listen to it first.

[Anchor]
As you've heard, the president has raised issues not only with the speed of judgment but also the process of delivering documents. How should we evaluate this part of the president's intention and strategy?

[Kim Kwang Sam]
First of all, I think the president's office is trying to delay the constitutional trial. However, there are many reasons for the delay, but the first is that public opinion deteriorates the most once a certain emergency decree is declared and impeachment is passed. There will be such a purpose as to inform the people of the legitimacy of martial law over time.

Second, I think we need to make thorough preparations for the judging process. But now, I think there are three lawyers, but they are not fully established. Moreover, if we consider the careers of lawyers like that, we are senior lawyers, and we need to have a competent young lawyer who can support senior lawyers, not senior lawyers.

However, it is highly likely that the defense team has not been formed yet. The last third, I think, is politically motivated. Regarding Lee Jae-myung's sentencing, whether the Supreme Court's rulings in the second and third trials will come out within six months is receiving a lot of attention right now. Then I'll bring the Constitutional Court to justice and take it by that time. There may be this intention, and the last thing is, I don't know if you really think that far.
There are six people right now. When you judge as a six-member and receive the result of the sentence later, if only one opposes it, the impeachment will be dismissed. So, the more time passes, the more likely you are to think that it is advantageous for the president to go to this state.

I think it's going to be that hard. And as of April 18, Moon Hyung-bae, acting as the Constitutional Court's chief justice, and Lee Mi-sun, the Constitutional Court justice, will quit as the president. Then, if the government does not appoint those two, it will be four. Then the impeachment clock has no choice but to stop there. I don't know if I even considered that because it's such a situation, but the president's position will take a long time. I'm going to delay the impeachment trial.The intention seems clear to me.

[Anchor]
How will the uncooperative attitude, which is dragging its feet without submitting documents on the impeachment trial, affect the referee in the future?

[Kim Kwang Sam]
But this is not a normal trial. In a typical trial, the court delays the trial by virtue of its attitude.If you deny without reflecting on too obvious matters, your sentence will be very high. However, the Constitutional Court trial is not a sentence trial. It's just a trial of whether to cite or reject impeachment. So, even if the presidential lawyer knows what kind of delay strategy he will use because he knows it, and even if he acts against common sense, it does not affect citation and dismissal because it judges whether it is a violation of the Constitution and laws based on previous actions and whether it is serious.

[Anchor]
Then, if I ask you a similar question, do you think that President Yoon Suk Yeol directly steps up to the impeachment trial and pleads, and there are not many advantages and disadvantages in this area? How do you judge this part?

[Kim Kwang Sam]
In my view, there's not much judgment on the advantages and disadvantages. As a result, it is right for the lawyer to organize everything and make a claim, and in a way, it can be seen as a solution for the president to come out and assert himself. I'll say what I want to say. I have no reason to be cited in the impeachment trial. Isn't that what you want to say? However, since President Yoon's characteristic style itself is known to be a statement that he himself fixes a lot, I believe that no matter what the lawyers claim, President Yoon's opinion will be reflected a lot.

[Anchor]
Former Minister Kim Yong-hyun was arrested and charged yesterday. According to the prosecution's indictment, the prosecution is judging that it is a riot for the purpose of national constitution, but the former minister Kim Yong-hyun's indictment has more things to do with President Yoon Suk Yeol.

[Kim Kwang Sam]
That's right. President Yoon is the head of the civil war, and investigative agencies have almost confirmed it, right? However, the head of the important mission worker is former Minister Kim Yong-hyun. Then, under the direction of President Yoon, didn't former Minister Kim Yong-hyun implement martial law and order everything under it? So, the indictment against President Yoon will be at almost the same level as the former minister Kim Yong-hyun's content, former minister Kim Yong-hyun's ruling, and former minister Kim Yong-hyun's indictment later.
So if you look at this, what's going to happen to the indictment against the president? If an arrest warrant applies and makes a request, the contents will be almost the same.

[Anchor]
At the same time, the contents of the group chat room of the counterintelligence dispatch group and the actual tools prepared for the arrest of the NEC were revealed.
Do you think there will be a fierce battle over whether it's true or not?

[Kim Kwang Sam]
Maybe the president will argue from the standpoint of former Minister Kim Yong-hyun. So far, former Minister Kim Yong-hyun has also said through a lawyer that it is a legitimate emergency martial law to cope with the defeat of the National Assembly, and the president said the same thing in the last statement. Therefore, it is highly likely that the two will be referees and have the same attitude toward trial and investigation.
But I haven't done anything like an arrest team with the president now, I've done emergency martial law just to warn him. I think there is little chance that this will be accepted. First of all, whether it's a special operations commander or an counterintelligence commander, the people who worked in the field at that time are saying the same thing that they received a phone call directly from the president. So you can't impeach that testimony. Such claims will not be accepted because they are almost reliable and specific, and in fact, there are phone details.

[Anchor]
Let's take a closer look at the contents of the indictment. Break down the door and pull it out with a shot. Crush the door with an axe and go inside. And regarding the martial law lifting plan, even if it is lifted, I just have to declare martial law twice or three times, so proceed. This is indicated in the indictment, and how will President Yoon Suk Yeol respond to this?

[Kim Kwang-sam]
President Yoon said he didn't even take out his arrest. However, the arrest team is operated and operated, and how to investigate, where to detain, and such things are appearing naked. So I think it's not very credible to deny something like that. There's no reason for people like the commander of the counterintelligence command to lie, right? Lying like that doesn't mean there's any benefit to you. Moreover, what I don't understand is why when the president declares martial law, the martial law commander takes the lead.

Then, the Minister of Defense is supposed to manage and direct there. Then, the president ordered the commander of special forces and the commander of the Capital Defense Command to arrest him. I don't understand why he did that. So, no matter how much I deny it, there is a high possibility that the president's toilet will not be accepted because the soldiers and generals who have done it in practice are talking about the president's instructions in detail.

[Anchor]
Also, a day before the indictment, former Minister Kim Yong-hyun's lawyer stepped up and made a number of comments. These parts are a kind of confession, and it is observed that there is also this character, what do you think as a lawyer?

[Kim Kwang Sam]
In my view, there is little possibility of avoiding the crime of rebellion no matter what the argument is. And in fact, they talked a lot about favorable things. But even that advantageous story is actually a crime of rebellion, in my opinion. That's why I deny a lot of things, but no matter how much they talk about the legality of declaring martial law, the illegality of the procedure, or the process, it is a kind of confession because it is likely to be a violation of the Constitution and the law in its own right. I don't think it's wrong to view it like this.

[Anchor]
The investigation into the alleged rebellion will eventually be the key to the investigation of President Yoon Suk Yeol, but the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit notified President Yoon Suk Yeol for the third time to come out tomorrow. I don't think it will come out if I look at the position that Yoon Suk Yeol's president has announced so far, but what will happen after that?

[Kim Kwang Sam]
It won't come out. If you ask me to attend at 10 o'clock, there is a possibility that if I attend at 10 o'clock, I will be arrested urgently, so there is a much higher possibility that I will not attend. The attitude of the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit is very ambiguous. I've asked for my third attendance, but I haven't talked about the plan yet what I'll do if I don't comply with the summons.

There are many reasons for this, but there was excessive competition in the investigation as the emergency martial law was declared at first and the investigation began. What was the first thing the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit did? I asked the police and the prosecution to investigate and take off their hands and do a transfer. However, since the prosecution is actually transferring the investigation into the president, I think the number of people and the capabilities of any investigation are insufficient to summon the president and request an arrest warrant. When I see him wavering like that. Then, if you want to get a transfer, you have to have a plan after you get a transfer, but I don't think you have much evidence about the president's allegations except to summon him for now. That's why the prosecution has most of the evidence that can be investigated and prosecuted against the president.
When the prosecution transfers the case to the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit, they shouldn't just take the case and they don't have it.

Then give me some evidence that the prosecution has. I have to get a transfer on the premise that I give it to someone, but they said they would transfer it. Also, they received two transfers. I got it right away, but I don't know the preparation to claim a warrant against the president. I don't know the inside. When I look at the investigation objectively, I think it's in that state. That's why you're making your attitude unclear. I requested an arrest warrant without any evidence, but it's rejected. Isn't this a big deal? So, at first, this investigation was conducted jointly by the prosecution, the police, and the military. Because martial law is related to military generals right now. Then the military has to investigate. And the person that the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit can investigate now is more than a general.

But all these people are involved in martial law. Of course, if you are an accomplice involved, you can investigate. But that's the problem, and so is the investigation of rebellion. You don't have the power to prosecute rebellion. Then I got the transfer. We investigated
. Then where should I send it? I have to send it to the prosecution. Then the prosecution should indict him. You have to get what you transferred. Another problem is that there's a military. Then, the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit investigated people related to the military. I got arrested again. Then, the jurisdiction of those involved in the military is in the military prosecution and in the military court. But what does the Corruption Investigations Unit Act say? It's supposed to be transferred to the Seoul Central District Prosecutor. So, there are many aspects that make it difficult for the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit to investigate alone because the law is intertwined like a thread. But the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit, whether it's the police or the prosecution, is so greedy for investigation that ironically, something outrageous is happening right now in this enormous situation in Korea, I think so.

[Anchor]
Lawyer, you said that the situation has become like this because it is mixed with the right to investigate, so let me ask you one more brief question. The president claimed that the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit does not have the right to investigate, but is there a basis for this?

[Kim Kwang-sam]
What you can do now is a high-ranking government official. However, the scope of the investigation related to high-ranking government officials is not supposed to be the crime of rebellion, but it is possible to investigate because it was related, in my opinion. The same goes for the prosecution. Since investigations can be conducted on related cases, even if the crime of rebellion is not subject to investigation by the prosecution due to the adjustment of the prosecution's investigation rights, an investigation into abuse of authority can be conducted if it is related, but I think the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit is similar. But if the prosecution investigates, they can prosecute themselves. However, even if the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit investigates clearly, they cannot prosecute themselves. This situation is happening in which the case that was transferred back to the prosecution is being sent back.

[Anchor]
I see. Let's stop here. So far, I've been with lawyer Kim Kwang-sam. Thank you.