[News Fighting] Choi Jae-hyung said, "Lee Jae-myung's election law will be impeached by a judge or the ruling will be finalized at the end of next year."

[YTN Radio News Fighting Bae Seunghee]
□ Broadcasting: FM 94.5 (07:15 - 09:00)
□ Broadcast date and time: November 18, 2024 (Monday)
□ Host: Attorney Bae Seung-hee
□ Cast: Choi Jae-hyung, former lawmaker of the People's Power

* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information.

[YTN Radio <News Fighting, Bae Seunghee]> Please clarify that it's about the interview.]

◇ Attorney Bae Seung-hee (hereinafter referred to as Bae Seung-hee): YTN Radio News Fighting, I'm Bae Seung-hee. The third part starts. The court sentenced Lee Jae-myung, who was handed over to trial on charges of violating the Public Official Election Act, to one year in prison and two years of probation. There is an evaluation that the sentence was higher than expected. Let's talk with Choi Jae-hyung, a former judge and former head of the court and the auditor, a former member of the People's Power. Hello

◆ Choi Jae-hyung, former member of the People's Power (hereinafter referred to as Choi Jae-hyung): Yes, hello.

◇ Bae Seung-hee: Is it very high for Lee Jae-myung's one-year prison sentence and two-year probation for the Public Official Election Act?

◆ Choi Jae-hyung: You may think it's serious, but in my view, the act itself is severe, so I think it was sentenced within the scope of the overall normal sentencing.

◇ Bae Seung-hee: It's not particularly high?

◆Choi Jae-hyung: There must have been a lot of people who expected a very low sentence. However, I think it was done within the scope of normal sentencing.

◇ Bae Seung-hee: Yes. However, CEO Lee Jae-myung went to an outdoor rally from this first gate and showed off his strong health, saying, "Lee Jae-myung will never die." How did you hear Lee Jae-myung's remarks at the outdoor rally?

◆Choi Jae-hyung: People who feel a sense of crisis that they're going to die now shout that they're not going to die. Perhaps it's a political rhetoric to stop the agitation of supporters. And in a way, the pressure on the court is shown. In any case, it seems right that the results of the first trial were a big shock to Lee Jae-myung or his supporters.

◇ Bae Seung-hee: Yes. You mentioned pressure on the court. Aren't you the leader of the opposition party and the leader of the big opposition party after holding a rally outside like this? Do these things actually work a little psychologically when the judges write their rulings?

◆Choi Jae-hyung: It can be a burden. It may be a burden, but asking the judge to judge the case itself, regardless of any political burden, is what the Constitution demands from the people to judge in accordance with the conscience of their judges based on the Constitution and laws. I think I made a faithful trial there.

◇ Bae Seung-hee: Yes. CEO Lee Jae-myung is appealing. Recently, Chief Justice Cho Hee-dae has to abide by the 633 principle in the election law trial. I'm emphasizing it like this. If the Public Official Election Act goes to an appeal, will the 633 principle be observed?

◆ Choi Jae-hyung: Let's say that delayed justice is not justice. These days, former lawmaker Yoon Mi-hyang's sentence was confirmed after the end of her term as a lawmaker, and Hwang Un-ha is now serving as a member of the National Assembly until the 22nd. The Ulsan election trial is under trial for election involvement, but this case is not that complicated, as those who are interested know well. And it's not a case where there are so many witnesses to investigate. Therefore, even if the appeals court and the Supreme Court proceed, I think the trial results will be sufficient by the end of next year if it goes ahead normally. However, I don't think I would go that far, but there is a high risk of unreasonable impeachment of judges. The people know that clearly. However, unless it is such an abnormal situation, I think the ruling will be sufficient by the end of next year.

◇ Bae Seung-hee: The essence of this violation of the Public Official Election Act is that if the Supreme Court finds you guilty, shouldn't the Democratic Party return the election compensation it received during the presidential election process? It's a whopping 43.4 billion won. Will this really be returned?

◆Choi Jae-hyung: We have to return it.

◇ Bae Seung-hee: No, some people might suggest a trick. So there are talks about changing the name of the party or creating a satellite party.

◆Choi Jae-hyung: Changing the party name doesn't mean that the debtor can escape the debt by changing the name, for example, because the identity is maintained anyway. And creating a satellite party means that if you voluntarily disband the party and move it to another place, there is a general election process even if you voluntarily dissolve the party. The Democratic Party probably has wealth because it doesn't end until the debt relationship is settled. I think it will be possible to execute the property until the execution liquidation process is completed.

◇ Bae Seung-hee: Can the court execute it again and seize it? About this, too?

◆ Choi Jae-hyung: The state is now a creditor. It's possible because the state becomes a creditor.

◇ Bae Seung-hee: Then I can't imagine not returning the money at all.

◆Choi Jae-hyung: I don't know if there's a way to survive or how to survive politically, but as a legal professional, I don't think there's much way to avoid it.

◇ Bae Seung-hee: I see. I see. If you look at the contents of the Public Official Election Act a little bit. This issue is the part where he said he didn't know the late Kim Moon-ki and that he was threatened by the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport. Some of them were acquitted, but didn't the verdict come out like this as guilty? Is there a possibility that this will change in this appeal?

◆Choi Jae-hyung: I don't think there is a possibility of change. It is now innocent to say that you do not know Kim Moon-ki because it is not an act that is a type of public disclosure of false information under the Public Official Election Act, but a perception. The court has already judged that part. CEO Lee Jae-myung fought a lot about that. Since the court has already ruled that it is innocent, there will be no need for representative Lee Jae-myung to argue. The rest of the cases are that I didn't play golf related to playing golf abroad and the photos were manipulated. And then the evidence for the change of the Baekhyun-dong site is so clear that it is unlikely that the guilt or innocence will change. If I talk about the sentencing part based on my experience as a judge, I was sentenced to invalidity of the election. However, such unreasonable changes to the sentence below the nullification of the election do not do so at the appeal trial.

◇ Bae Seung-hee: That's a more unreasonable change. For example, making it less than 1 million won or a fine less than 1 million won

◆Choi Jae-hyung: Isn't there steps such as a one-year suspended sentence, a two-year suspended sentence, and a fine of more than 1 million won? Then, I don't think that the sentence will go down that far, considering the seriousness of the illegality of this act itself. In the case of the first trial, the reason why sentencing goes down is that in the case of the first trial, the psychology of trying to avoid it by not winning it due to some political burden can work, but it is not likely to change significantly in the appeal trial because the first trial has already decided on the case without any psychological burden on that part.

◇ Bae Seung-hee: If there is nothing to argue about in the appeal trial, it will remain almost the same. I think you're talking about this, but the Democratic Party of Korea is saying, "I lost the presidential election, so should I do this?" It's too harsh a ruling.

◆Choi Jae-hyung: In the case of Korea, I think I should look at it a little differently, and of course, I received political judgment in the presidential election. However, all of the campaign funds are covered by the state. And in the case of the presidential election, for example, if you say that it is better not to make such a problem legally even if you tell false facts because you have already been judged politically, there are two things. Isn't it hard to prosecute if you become president or not? If not, if criminal punishment or return of campaign funds is exempted, it may be an example of a foreign country yet, considering that there is a risk of anyone telling false information and blurring and distorting people's judgment, but Korea is not yet in a situation to consider exempting or reducing judicial judgment for publicizing false information about it. That's how I see it.

◇ Bae Seung-hee: I see. There is a first trial this time, but there is another one on the 25th. It's about the perjury teacher charge. CEO Lee Jae-myung said, "How can you be a perjury teacher when you are a failed teacher?" A failed teacher? Are you saying you did a failed teacher? Are you saying you didn't?

◆Choi Jae-hyung: I don't understand either. If you look at the prosecution, I gave perjury and testified accordingly. And I understand that the person who testified admitted that he has now perjured himself. However, if you look at the recording, CEO Lee Jae-myung is a lawyer, so he didn't say directly, "Hey, tell me contrary to the truth," but expressed it slightly deftly. However, the overall purpose is to ask you to tell me like this even if you don't remember. I don't know what I'm saying failed. If you say you are a failed teacher, you feel like you are admitting to yourself that you did, but looking at the contents of the ruling, the testimony of Kim Jin-sung, the former secretary of Seongnam Mayor, did not directly affect the outcome of the ruling. Because I wasn't innocent because of the facts, but I said it to the effect that I was a little framed for the impersonation of the prosecutor. I understand that the content of the judgment is that he was acquitted by legal principles, not by talking about facts. If so, it seems to mean that you taught perjury, but the perjury teacher did not affect the outcome of the judgment. However, if you teach perjury, you will be guilty of it, and I don't know if it will be a reason for sentencing. But it has nothing to do with guilt or innocence.

◇ Bae Seung-hee: If the story is the same, this could be punished as an attempted criminal

◆Choi Jae-hyung: It's not an attempt, it's a perjury teacher. It's not even an attempt.

◇Bae Seung-Hee: Then in the case of Kim Jin-Sung, aren't you confessing? Then, there will be fewer sentences than CEO Lee Jae-myung, who has been perjury, right?

◆Choi Jae-hyung: Usually, the perjury himself confesses, denies the teacher, and the teacher is heavier. In general, the teacher is considered more heavy, but if you deny it, there is a possibility that it will come out more serious than the principal crime.

◇ Bae Seung-hee: He asked for three years in prison now. These days, perjury teachers are sentenced to prison for perjury offenders a lot. Almost 80% of the time, I don't remember well, but I heard that there were so many sentences. Is a prison sentence expected?

◆Choi Jae-hyung: I don't know. In my opinion, I don't think it will go to court arrest for prison sentences.

◇ Bae Seung-hee: You won't be arrested in court even if you get a prison sentence?

◆Choi Jae-hyung: I think he will not be sentenced to prison because if you look at the contents of the ruling now, it is difficult to say that he was a perjury teacher, but he was acquitted directly because of that.

◇ Bae Seung-hee: Then you're talking about probation for the same.

◆Choi Jae-hyung: It's hard to jump to a conclusion, but anyway, the perjury teacher sees it as a serious crime that greatly harms the judicial system. I'll stop here.

◇ Bae Seung-hee: Since you were a judge, how about looking at this perjured defendant?

◆Choi Jae-hyung: You can see it most of the time. You can see it all in court. Because there's other evidence.

◇ Bae Seung-hee: What will happen to the Democratic Party of Korea atmosphere if even this perjury teacher is convicted as you said?

◆Choi Jae-hyung: I don't know. Actually, CEO Lee Jae-myung knows this the best. Moreover, since you are a legal professional, you will know the details of your actions best and what kind of judicial evaluation it will receive. I think you will continue to criticize the court and continue to make efforts to influence the appeals court at some political rallies at outdoor rallies for the time being.

◇ Bae Seung-hee: Yes. So now, Democratic lawmakers have held an emergency meeting and issued a flurry of condemnation. Park Chan-dae, the floor leader, argued in the court of public sentiment that Lee Jae-myung is innocent in the court of history. How did you like it?

◆Choi Jae-hyung: First of all, I think that it is such an act of violating the constitutional principle of separation of powers for the lawmakers, who are constitutional institutions, to criticize the court's ruling collectively. What the Constitution requires of judges is not to judge according to the opinion of the majority. According to the Constitution and the law, the trial is conducted independently according to the conscience of the judge. However, I think it is a very dangerous statement that goes beyond denigrating the judgment of the judiciary and denies the function of the judiciary.

◇ Bae Seung-hee: In the Democratic Party of Korea, the principle of presumption of innocence should continue to be applied to the Supreme Court. I'm making this argument. In fact, the presumption of innocence applies only when the situation is very specific, right? The presumption of innocence does not apply to all criminal cases.

◆Choi Jae-hyung: You're asking me to assume innocence, not to acquit all crimes. So, there is a principle of presumption of innocence, but the presumption is reversed according to the law if there is solid evidence, so it is convicted. To apply the law of presumption of innocence, you can make such an argument in this regard, such as not binding in court or conducting an investigation without detention, but I don't understand that the principle of presumption of innocence should be applied to the sentencing itself.

◇ Bae Seung-hee: Then isn't it meaningless that the first trial is guilty and the principle of innocence is presumed in the appeal trial?

◆Choi Jae-hyung: First of all, we will judge with a certain perception that it is the principle of presumption of innocence. I'll judge the evidence and the law with that thought, but if I'm guilty, I'll break the presumption of innocence.

◇Bae Seung-hee: Now, President Yoon is preparing for a Cabinet reshuffle as he turns the halfway point of his term in office. How do you get on the candidate list for the lawmaker when rumors of the prime minister keep coming out?

◆Choi Jae-hyung: I don't think so. There's also a story that Myeong Taekyun flew away because he talked about it, and that's a joke. First of all, I think it will be very difficult for the prime minister because of the consent of the National Assembly. So, personally, I'm a little weak in political color, but I think those who have excellent practical knowledge about the economy and state affairs in general can be appointed with the consent of the opposition party.

◇ Bae Seung-hee: Wouldn't we be able to go to the Prime Minister's Surrey Festival?

◆Choi Jae-hyung: That's not a good way.

◇ Bae Seung-hee: What is the direction of the reshuffle going forward?

◆Choi Jae-hyung: First of all, I think a cabinet reshuffle is important, but the presidential office needs a major overhaul. As support for state affairs is declining, and the presidential office's response to various pending issues does not seem to be receiving good responses. What the president can do right away is to reform the presidential office, so please do that first. The direction of the reshuffle is that those responsible for various pending issues, whether they did something legally illegal, regardless of whether they did something right or wrong, ministers on such issues that are politically controversial, I think it is necessary to replace them and show their will to reform the state administration.

◇ Bae Seung-hee: Administrators or secretaries in the presidential office should be replaced here, too, and ministers should be held politically responsible. Are you talking about this?

◆Choi Jae-hyung: Regardless of political responsibility, it's better to do so in order to reform the government. As the president has said many times during his presidential campaign, I hope that he will appoint good talents in each field to give them responsibility, give them authority, and renew the cabinet.

◇ Bae Seung-hee: Okay. Thank you for your words today. Thank you for coming out. So far, Choi Jae-hyung has been a former member of the People's Power. Thank you.