[News UP] "Pinching" investigation blade...The search and seizure of the presidential office failed.

■ Host: Anchor Yoon Jae-hee
■ Starring: Lee Chang-geun, Chairman of the Party Cooperation Committee, Hanam-eul, Power of the People, Cho Dae-hyun, Chief of the Office of the Former Prime Minister for Civil Affairs,

* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information. Please specify [YTN News UP] when quoting.

[Anchor]
The presidential impeachment motion is being introduced for the second time today. Let's talk in detail with Lee Chang-geun, chairman of the party's cooperation committee, and Cho Dae-hyun, head of the civil affairs office of the former Prime Minister's Office. Please come in. Yesterday, the National Special Investigation Team of the National Assembly began a search and seizure of the presidential office for the first time, but the presidential office did not respond. I received the data in the form of voluntary submission, but I don't think there was any record of the cabinet meeting I needed.

[Changgeun Lee]
I don't really understand that. I also worked in the Blue House's former annex. When asked about urgent issues at the National Assembly yesterday, the Prime Minister said that he agrees with the opposition lawmaker that it is not a Cabinet meeting. However, according to the data sent from the presidential office to the Ministry of Public Administration and Security, it is stated as a Cabinet meeting. If so, even if the president is out after a short time, shorthand should basically appear. No matter what kind of writing there is. So, I think it should be clarified through the investigation whether there was really no such procedural, but whether the president's office does not submit it.

Because whether or not the Cabinet deliberated properly is also a part that meets the great legal requirements. But so far, according to the testimony, isn't it the majority of the people who say no? If so, in order for the public to know, proper data should be released to prove that there are legal defects.

[Anchor]
Yesterday, Prime Minister Han Deok-soo mentioned that the Cabinet meeting had many procedural flaws. What do you think?

[Cho Dae-hyun]
I've been to a Cabinet meeting as an attendee. The bill of the Cabinet meeting and the process of proceeding are quite strict. When it comes to the proposal of a bill, for example, shouldn't the quorum of members and meetings be more than 11 based on the current standard? Starting with that, the agenda should be presented. That's how the Cabinet meeting should be held, but it was held in just five minutes. The Prime Minister also said he agreed with Representative Yoon Gun-young's question of whether he considered it a Cabinet meeting, although it was reported earlier.

So, no matter who looks at it, this is a cabinet meeting, which itself is questionable. It is clearly stated in Article 2, Paragraph 5 of the Martial Law that if it does not go through a cabinet meeting, so to speak, it is not a decision of the cabinet meeting, it must go through deliberation. If so, if martial law was declared without going through a normal Cabinet meeting, it would be a clear violation of martial law law. So, of course, there seems to be no minutes or anything like that right now. The Cabinet itself did not exist properly. I have no choice but to have such doubts.

[Anchor]
It is said that the president is listed as a suspect in the search warrant, but the National Assembly said that if the requirements are met, the president may be arrested urgently. Do you think there's a possibility?

[Changgeun Lee]
I think there's a good chance. Because the president's office and the president's explanations that he said no have been falsely revealed one by one, right? Former Defense Minister Kim Yong-hyun was also found to have been ordered by the president himself. In addition, former commander Kwak Jong-geun also testified in the second call that the lawmakers should be pulled out. In addition, Commissioner Jo Ji-ho and Commissioner Kim Bong-sik met at the safe house. And I got prior instructions from the president, and I got instructions such as arrest.
It's all been revealed, isn't it? Above all, the President also directly ordered the amendment of the decree that the decree itself is unconstitutional in relation to the decree. I think there's a good chance when everything comes out like that. In such a situation, the president has remained silent until the end, and this situation seems to be a very critical point.

[Anchor]
In this situation, President Yoon has now approved the dismissal of Ryu Hyuk, the inspector of the Ministry of Justice. There was also a controversy when Minister Lee Sang-min accepted, but what do you think about this part of continuing to exercise personnel rights?

[Cho Dae-hyun]
I was surprised to see this situation. One of the most surprising parts is that we are exercising our very detailed personnel rights, as we usually say. As the host said, didn't he accept his resignation not only for Minister Lee Sang-min but also for Defense Minister Kim Yong-hyun before that? In fact, in general public officials, even if they retire, they ask for retirement, so if they ask for dismissal, they will review what investigations are conducted, investigations are conducted, and there are no problems before accepting the resignation.

However, Kim Yong-hyun and Lee Sang-min, who played a very important role in the civil war, are nominated by Defense Minister Kim Yong-hyun, and even in the case of Minister Lee Sang-min, they are in a difficult situation as accomplices or sympathizers. If so, he will be relieved of his position as a lawmaker. I'm really talking about Chungampa and Chungampa, but it's hard to understand if it's consideration for alumni. What's more surprising is that he appointed Park Sun-young, chairman of the Truth and Reconciliation Committee. In the meantime, watching the news come out, I wondered if I was really in my right mind.

However, when I saw the reports that followed, I was executed by Judge Jung Young-sik at the Constitutional Court. Despite such a severe and urgent situation, hasn't there been a lot of doubt about the preparation for the constitutional trial that will take place later or after impeachment? If you look at it that way, I wonder if you are very determined and meticulously preparing for future events.

[Anchor]
The presidential office continues to remain silent, but there was considerable opposition yesterday when Rep. Yoon Sang-hyun said in an emergency question at the National Assembly that this is a high-level political act. How did you like it?

[Changgeun Lee]
Representative Yoon Sang-hyun gave an example of the Supreme Court precedent. However, if you look closely at the Supreme Court precedent, it is recognized as a political act when it is observed within the boundaries of the Constitution and the law. However, in the case of this emergency martial law incident, the constitutional and legal procedures that the public cannot understand were violated, right?
Of course, that part should be comprehensively judged by the court later. The start of the emergency martial law, which is the most starting point, should be suggested through the prime minister, but it is also questionable whether it was suggested through the prime minister. And the second part is that even if the emergency martial law breaks out, the National Assembly is excluded.

However, the part of decree No. 1 that the National Assembly and the NEC were targeted is also unconstitutional. And the third part is a state of emergency, such as wartime or incident, which is a requirement of emergency martial law. In fact, isn't that why administration and justice work? It's hard for the people to agree. Looking at these parts alone, did the emergency martial law come within the boundaries of the law and constitution this time? It's a part that many people are questioning and are actually arguing about. The presidential office in Yongsan may argue that this was done within the constitutional framework, but it is difficult to get public sentiment and public consent.

[Anchor]
Rep. Yoon Sang-hyun should refrain from judicial review while respecting the president's authority while making high-level claims of political action. They said this, too. How are you watching it?

[Cho Dae-hyun]
It's a very inappropriate statement. I don't understand how, as a member of the National Assembly, the National Assembly to which he belongs and the Republic of Korea's separation of powers are clear, and the legislative power that constitutes one of the pillars of the separation of powers is violated in front of a gun knife. So I watched it that day, too.Didn't you say that Chun Doo-hwan and Chun Doo-hwan were on the run? I know that he is Chun Doo-hwan's ex-son-in-law, but didn't he talk about that?

To that extent, this is a statement that the people cannot understand. Another thing to note among these remarks is that they lose the opportunity to change the imperial presidential system, which is prematurely resigning. In my opinion, I thought that he might be playing tricks even in the midst of a very trick. In fact, it is true that Korea's presidential system has been unstable since the 1987 system. And it is also true that there are demands for various constitutional amendments as times are different. One of them is a four-year, two-term constitutional amendment, and the other is a decentralized constitutional amendment.

It's decentralizing authority. We're going to share it. This is what civil society is interested in, including the ruling and opposition parties.
So we have no choice but to erase the suspicion that the National Assembly, who should make the best efforts to quickly ease public anxiety and stabilize state affairs at this critical point, is making plans by dividing the political and civil society again and gaining time. So, I wasn't in a situation to talk about this here at all. I think so.

[Anchor]
In the midst of this, another new fact has been revealed. Three hours before the declaration of the emergency martial law, the president called the police chief and the Seoul chief to the president's safe house. It is said that the documents written on the institutions to be controlled after the declaration of martial law were delivered here. In fact, the police chief claimed that he did not know about martial law in advance, but it is also deployed here. There was also Cho's day of movement submitted by the National Police Agency. This is also a situation where it's deployed, right?

[Changgeun Lee]
Commissioner Cho has given perjury to his personal safety, so we have no choice but to see it like this. Didn't you admit it? And as a result, it's an emergency arrest. It's shocking. So everyone doubted the police's actions on the day martial law took place. Because control citizens, in front of the National Assembly. In addition, the Seoul Metropolitan Police Agency will also put in control personnel. But he claimed that he knew about martial law through the media, which is very inappropriate. And now, to protest, the person did not fulfill all of the instructions.

They are protesting that they did not carry out the irrational part, but in fact, from the perspective of the police who protect the safety of the people, they should strongly protest and oppose the unjust part, but I think it is very inappropriate to take the lead in arresting, taking the lead in controlling citizens, and even perjury in the National Assembly. So, using this incident as an excuse, the police also have a lot of investigative power and the number of people has increased a lot, right? I think we should thoroughly investigate
to get rid of the stigma of protecting my family.

[Anchor]
In the process of finding out the truth of the martial law situation, sensitive military secrets were disclosed, causing controversy. The real name and face of the intelligence agent were also disclosed, and the structure of the battle control room was also disclosed. Isn't this a very dangerous situation for security?

[Cho Dae-hyun]
It's a pity. Most of the men born in Korea have served in the military and when they join the military, they receive very strict security education and requests on these issues from the beginning to the end. Nevertheless, for example, intelligence agencies are considered to be very important intelligence agencies that work related to North Korea, and it is unfortunate that this is being exposed in front of the public. But now, more important than such matters, we need to quell public anxiety and reveal these unprecedented events and situations that have occurred in a few days before the public.

I think the priority is to reveal the truth and to relieve any anxiety that can reassure the people. So, as I said to everyone, this is unfortunate, but after going through this process, we think that supplementary measures and improvements should be made in these areas. Isn't the National Assembly uncovering these things right now to meet the people's right to know? The investigation authorities must proceed with these things more closely and quickly to minimize these side effects, I think.

[Anchor]
The National Assembly will discuss it, but there is also an opinion that this should be kept private.

[Changgeun Lee]
That's very possible. On this occasion, I hope that the members of the National Assembly will study and comply with the Constitution properly once again. Because lawmakers are called constitutional institutions, aren't they? It's clearly stated in the Constitution. Members of the
National Assembly must prioritize national interests and can hold meetings behind closed doors when it comes to national security. And there's a law called the Law of Ethics for Members of the National Assembly. According to that, there is also an obligation regarding compliance with state secrets. So why would the National Assembly also keep the Intelligence Committee private? I know that the people's right to know is important and the situation is serious, but if the Constitution is followed, the lawmakers should also do it behind closed doors. So, I hope the lawmakers will take this opportunity to reflect on themselves in terms of compliance with the Constitution, although they admit that the emergency martial law situation is really serious and that it is really wrong.

[Anchor]
I think more discussion is needed on the part where military secrets are exposed like this. National Assembly Speaker Woo Won-sik also proposed a parliamentary investigation, but do you think a parliamentary investigation is necessary?

[Cho Dae-hyun]
Of course, I need it. I answered the question a while ago.Ma was invaded by armed soldiers in the legislature, one of the three pillars of Korea's three powers, and the scene was exposed in real time not only in our country but around the world.
In such a situation, it is a natural recommendation of the National Assembly to investigate that this is done in the National Assembly yard and in the National Assembly building. Through this process, I think it is the duty of the National Assembly members and the duty of the Speaker of the National Assembly to clarify the truth.

[Anchor]
Chairman Woo Won-sik's opinion is that public testimony from the president is also necessary during the parliamentary investigation, what do you think about this?

[Changgeun Lee]
I'm sure Chairman Woo Won-sik would argue that. And of course, the necessity of a parliamentary investigation can be done by law as a member of the National Assembly. But I think comprehensively, at this time of the investigation, and at this time of the year, the National Assembly passed another special prosecutor for civil war. Then, if the investigation agency has passed the investigation and a special prosecutor, the first thing to do is to investigate in detail through a special prosecutor, and the only function of a parliamentary investigation is hearing and witness attendance. How effective is this? The lawmakers are now arguing for people's livelihoods, but the economy is very difficult. And external credibility is also falling. Considering external credibility, people's livelihoods, and the economy, there is a question of whether we should insist on this at this time.

[Anchor]
In the meantime, the TF of the People's Power mentioned the president's orderly roadmap for early retirement. We are considering holding an early presidential election in April or May early next year, but the president seems to be refusing this, and this news continues to come out. How do you figure it out?

[Changgeun Lee]
We also understand that there is a very strong negative atmosphere. However, Han Dong-hoon's early resignation and orderly resignation. So I will stabilize the state affairs early. It's not that the direction is wrong. The impeachment process is suspended immediately, but it is unknown how long it will take until the Constitutional Court decides. Of course, based on past cases, it is estimated to be three months, but with six judges now on the Constitutional Court, will six people judge this critical situation? That's also a question. If that's the case, it'll take more time. To do so, we have prepared a major plan that presupposes the resignation of the president for a more reliable and orderly resignation, but there is a very negative atmosphere in Yongsan. If so, I don't think the method can go against the public sentiment when the people inevitably don't tolerate it. If so, the remaining procedures will be very important this week, so we have no choice but to judge it that way.

[Anchor]
Anyway, in terms of the power of the people, are we in a situation where we continue to wait for the presidential office's position until Saturday?

[Changgeun Lee]
I will continue to persuade and encourage you, but if the negative atmosphere is strong in the presidential office, I think the fact that five lawmakers have already publicly voted for impeachment shows a side of it. And it should be left to self-voting. And you have to participate in the voting. Seeing that such a strong atmosphere is created, I will strongly demand the position of the president's office, but if it continues to be negative, you should leave it to such a judgment through autonomous voting.

[Anchor]
If the president chooses to risk impeachment, what do you see as a reason?

[Cho Dae-hyun]
There's already a lot of talk in the media.If Ma steps down, his authority will be suspended immediately, and the investigation into the crime of rebellion will proceed at the same time as the investigation. In this situation, if you go to impeachment, you have the freedom to buy up to 180 days, so to speak. And as a legal professional, I did not rebellion, or it was not unconstitutional. It is expected that they will prepare these arguments carefully and respond. In that sense, I think that choosing impeachment is practical in terms of buying time. What I want to say is that I have already confirmed my refusal to comply with the seizure and search yesterday, but of course, I can reject the facility because it is a military protection facility, and in the past, President Lee Myung Bak and President Park Geun Hye rejected it. Nevertheless, this time it is a crime of rebellion, and as you said last time, you said you would take legal and political responsibility. Nevertheless, the fact that they did not cooperate at all in the search and seizure will break through head-on in preparation for such a phase of impeachment. With those things, I will explain what I will explain. I think I made sure to change my posture with this attitude. In this way, I believe that it will inevitably arouse greater resistance from the people.

[Anchor]
In terms of the power of the people, five publicly confirmed departure votes have been confirmed so far. Representative Han Dong-hoon is also said to have told people that lawmakers should attend the vote on the 14th. Do you think there is a possibility that the size of the departure ticket will be larger?

[Changgeun Lee]
As I said earlier, I think it depends on the response of the presidential office. Because I don't think I can go against public sentiment.
The public sentiment is not wrong. Because if the presidential office's explanation had been true and the president's apology had been true, the situation would have been different. However, all the explanations are being found to be false to the extent that it is questionable whether the president's apology was sincere. He expressed his opposition to all impeachment and adopted it as a party platform, but now the public sentiment is collapsing in front of false explanations. Therefore, I think representative Han Dong-hoon also expressed this opinion that the National Assembly member would leave it to their own judgment as a constitutional institution.

[Anchor]
I think the Democratic Party is also judging that the impeachment cordon will collapse this time.

[Cho Dae-hyun]
Is it on December 7th, when the first impeachment vote was held, the main reason why lawmakers, especially the People's Power, were so criticized by the people was that they did not vote on this important issue, whether they were for it or not. That's why we're voting on that part again in a week. I think that such a situation is being created that even the members of the People's Power can't resist. However, I don't know whether to revise the party's theory or self-voting when entering the vote, but I can't believe it because if that happens, the anonymous vote will take place, so to put it in a very exaggerated way, it's a general meeting of lawmakers. It's a shame and a terrible thing.

So, aren't the members of the People's Power Party also receiving a lot of criticism from supporters and party members in each region?
In this situation, it is inevitable to participate in the vote. The distribution of opinions will also change a lot. Whether it is the power of the people or the Democratic Party, lawmakers cannot help but listen to the voices of the people. If you look at it that way, I'm looking forward to seeing a different result.

[Anchor]
In today's People's Power, a new floor leader will be elected, which is a two-way race between Kwon Sung-dong and Kim Tae-ho. Which side do you think is being weighed?

[Changgeun Lee]
It's unpredictable because we're going to hold a debate. Considering the unpredictable factual numerical advantage, Kwon Sung-dong, who has a large pro-Yoon majority, will be elected. However, under the current circumstances, would it be helpful for the party to put Chin-yoon back to the forefront of the party? And will it help you to settle this public sentiment? Member for Parliament, I think I probably have a lot of concerns. In order for the party to really reform and follow the public sentiment, it is Kim Tae-ho's personal opinion in the current situation. Isn't it right for candidates like Kim Tae-ho to step up and really renovate? The sugar is very hard right now because new alcohol needs to be put in a new bowl. In this situation, it is my personal opinion that I want my friends to refrain.

[Anchor]
He even gave his personal opinion. The Democratic Party launched an emergency economic inspection meeting alone. In the first place, Chairman Lee Jae-myung proposed to launch a meeting between the ruling and opposition parties, but as the possibility of the early presidential election becoming a reality increased, Chairman Lee Jae-myung began to take the lead in the people's livelihood.

[Cho Dae-hyun]
I don't think it's appropriate to link these issues directly to the presidential election in the current situation. Before coming in, I just watched the news and watched the news right before entering the broadcast, and the Nasdaq Composite exceeded 20,000 on the New York Stock Exchange. Korea's stock price is also recovering a little for about two days, but the exchange rate is still fluctuating, and the soaring exchange rate has a huge impact on the Korean economy. This economic instability continues to accelerate. In this situation, it is actually what the ruling party should do. Isn't the economy in an emergency situation after taking care of the people's livelihood economy? On top of that, President Yoon Suk Yeol, the president of the people's power, has triggered and accelerated this situation.
If so, I think this is a problem that all political and civil society, including the ruling and opposition parties, should do together. This is the Democratic presidential plan. It's Lee Jae-myung's presidential plan, I think it's unreasonable to see it like this. The economy really needs to be overcome by holding hands across the ruling and opposition parties. In this situation, offer gold to the people once again, we can't go to this situation, can we? So I think it would be nice to look at these issues from an open perspective.

[Anchor]
The People's Power has not yet expressed its intention to attend, but what plans do you have?

[Changgeun Lee]
Representative Han Dong-hoon already has no ruling and opposition parties in the people's livelihood. And I said that the ruling party would also consult with the opposition party. However, as representative Lee Jae-myung said, if you really mean it to restore foreign trust and the economy, there is no reason to respond. But if you're not serious about it, you really have to put your heads together. The economy has no ruling and opposition parties. And in a very dangerous situation, the opposition party actually opposed the semiconductor law that the ruling party claimed in the National Assembly. I want you to show an open attitude first.

[Anchor]
I see. I'll stop listening to it. Lee Chang-geun, chairman of the party's cooperation committee, and Cho Dae-hyun, head of the civil affairs office of the former Prime Minister's Office. Thank you both for your comments.