■ Host: anchor Lee Se-na, anchor Park Seok-won
■ Starring: Cha Jin-ah, professor of law at Korea University, lawyer Lim Joo-hye
* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information. Please specify [YTN New Square 2PM] when quoting.
[Anchor]
Let's look at the fast-paced investigation and political situation after the National Assembly passes the impeachment motion of President Yoon.
Today, we are joined by two lawyers, Cha Jin-ah, a professor at Korea University's law school, and Lim Joo-hye. Please come in.
Half of December has already passed. I wonder how you saw this situation from the Dec. 3 declaration of emergency martial law to the passing of the impeachment motion over the weekend, professor, how was it?
[Charge]
When the emergency decree was declared, everyone, including myself, was probably very surprised and shocked. You must have been very shocked that you sent troops, especially to the people. Fortunately, the National Assembly worked properly to vote on the demand for the lifting of martial law, and the martial law was lifted accordingly, but the impeachment bill was passed last Saturday while the anger and shock of the people were still lingering. Now is the time for the people to calm down this anger and excitement for a while and calm down this confusion, so I think it's time for us to work together to stabilize the state of affairs.
[Anchor]
The first meeting was held at the Constitutional Court today, and Lee Jin, the press officer of the Constitutional Court, briefed on the results of the meeting. The first hearing preparation date is 2 p.m. on Friday, December 27th, so can you say to speed up?
[Lim Joo-hye]
That's right. It was given a case number. 2024 Heona8. The clock has started ticking over President Yoon Suk Yeol's impeachment case. This morning, all the justices gathered to have a meeting and it seems that a discussion has taken place on the overall direction of the case. According to this, the chief judge will also be automatically designated, but previously, the chief judge was disclosed in the case of President Park Geun Hye's impeachment. However, since the original referee is not disclosed, it seems that the decision has been made not to disclose which judge the referee is through discussion this time. It seems that two life-long judges who will proceed with the hearing preparation period have also been decided. There will be a hearing preparation period on the 27th, but the speed of prosecution, police, and investigation is progressing very quickly in relation to the overall situation. As the case is very interested in the public, it is predictable that the impeachment trial will complete the preparatory period as soon as possible and begin full-fledged pleading.
[Anchor]
And in today's briefing on the results of the meeting, there was a statement that the request for an answer to the President's notice of receipt of Yoon Suk Yeol is ongoing. Does the President of Yoon Suk Yeol have an obligation to send a response?
[Charge]
Although it is not obligated, it can be very disadvantageous if you do not send it because it is exercising your right to defend yourself. Therefore, it is predicted that the answer will be sent to refute the reasons for impeachment stated in the impeachment indictment.
[Anchor]
It says that a sentence must be issued within 180 days of the date of filing the case, but what happens? Aren't there cases where the results come out sooner if you see precedents even within 180 days?
[Charge]
This rule, which is said to be within 180 days, does not apply only to the impeachment trial. In principle, all cases under trial by the Constitutional Court are supposed to be completed within 180 days, but in some cases, it takes nearly 10 years to be sentenced, depending on the case. However, the impeachment of the president is due to the suspension of the exercise of authority because it greatly hinders the performance of state affairs. So, we need to proceed with the argument as soon as possible so that the sentence can be made within 180 days.
[Anchor]
How long did it take for the Constitutional Court to judge former President Roh Moo Hyun and former President Park Geun Hye in the past?
[Lim Joo-hye]
The judgment was made within 180 days. In the case of President Roh Moo Hyun, it was finally dismissed, but the decision was made in 63 days. In the case of former President Park Geun Hye, he was dismissed, and the decision was made in 91 days at that time. So, the 180-day period is right, but as the professor mentioned earlier, the importance of the issue and how many event records are together. Depending on how many issues there are to contend with, this period can be sufficiently different, so it is still in the beginning stage, so we need to wait and see when this will be decided.
[Anchor]
For now, the possibility of an impeachment trial and a criminal trial proceeding at the same time is even greater, so please explain this part and what procedures are different.
[Charge]
The criminal trial ends with the charge of the head of the rebellion, and if a prosecution is filed, the criminal trial proceedings will proceed in the general court. And the Constitutional Court's process of being impeached is a kind of special disciplinary process. Therefore, it is not a criminal responsibility procedure, but a disciplinary procedure, which is a kind of administrative punishment, so it is carried out separately.
[Anchor]
It's coming out on the screen right now.Ma is paying a lot of attention to Article 51 of the Constitutional Court Act, suspension of the trial process, and this, so if President Yoon is indicted on charges of rebellion, there is a possibility that the impeachment trial may be suspended. How do you see it?
[Charge]
It's hard to say that there's no possibility, but maybe President Yoon can request a suspension like this, asking him to proceed with the impeachment trial after seeing the first trial sentence in the criminal trial process for rebellion as an agent.It is the discretion of the Constitutional Court whether to suspend this or not. So I'm not obliged to suspend it. And the impeachment trial process against the president needs to proceed as soon as possible to minimize confusion and various obstacles in state affairs, so even if you apply for suspension, it is unlikely that you will accept it.
[Anchor]
And today, lawyer Seok Dong-hyun, who is known to have been President Yoon for 40 years, said on social media that the president's lawyers will help outside for the time being, but are you rejecting this? Or is it a strategic reason?
[Lim Joo-hye]
Looking at what's coming out right now, I think it can be evaluated as a strategic part. In the case of President Yoon Suk Yeol now, it seems very important to set up a defense team as soon as possible. First of all, in the case of a constitutional trial, a defense team must be formed for the impeachment trial. Since a lawyer must be appointed, it is necessary to appoint a lawyer for this part, and according to the media, Seok Dong-hyun, secretary-general of the Advisory Council for Democratic Peace and Unification, will also meet somewhere to talk about future countermeasures, along with Kim Hong-il, former chairman of the Korea Communications Commission, who is now expected to appoint a strong closest lawyer. These articles are also being confirmed.
Whether both of them participate as lawyers together or in the case of Secretary-General Seok, whether they support this part from behind, there seems to be a high possibility that they will play a role as lawyers together. There are a lot of issues to contend with right now. In the case of criminal trials, the crime of rebellion and court sentences are also very high, so not only preparations for criminal trials but also impeachment trials can proceed very quickly, so it seems necessary to form a defense team on this as soon as possible. However, it does not seem easy for President Yoon Suk Yeol to find the right person.
Civil war and impeachment. This is not a field that anyone can handle in general, and it's especially specialized in this area. It doesn't seem easy to find people like this. Therefore, it seems that President Yoon Suk Yeol is also making efforts to form a defense team centered on his closest aides, and if he sets it up with his closest lawyers, it will be clear that the merits are clear. He knows President Yoon Suk Yeol best and can come up with a defense plan in the right way, but on the other hand, because he is a close aide, some point out that it can interfere with objectivity, fairness, or objectively making the best choice, so he seems to be struggling with the appointment of lawyers.
[Anchor]
So, the lawyers that will be set up this time are expected to take charge of the rebellion and the impeachment trial together, so how large are the lawyers expected to be?
[Lim Joo-hye]
In fact, in this case, there are very serious charges and there are many issues to contend with. Therefore, there should be only a few lawyers, and there are no such regulations, and the more complex and controversial cases, the more common it is to include a large number of lawyers. That's why in this case, it's going to be a few people. It's hard to predict this, but I think it's very important for President Yoon Suk Yeol to find a lawyer who can cover it as well as possible and aim to have a large number of lawyers if possible.
[Anchor]
However, I will not give up until the end, saying that I will leave it up to President Yoon's Constitutional Court judgment. Don't you hear that you're making your own argument? What variable will this serve as for the president to go to the constitutional court and defend himself?
[Charge]
There are advantages and disadvantages of that, but if you look at it as an advantage, you can explain it most accurately in that part because you know the situation best, and because you seem to believe this and President Yoon was a special expert, when he was in the prosecution. I think he believes that he has the most legal knowledge on this matter. Of course, there are those parts, but the downside is that no matter how professional a person is, it is difficult to see the matter objectively if he pleads about it directly, so if you do something wrong, you can make an argument that is not convincing from an objective point of view or fail to respond properly to the other person's reason for prosecution. There can be some risks like a kind of confirmatory bias. And if it's a risk, there's a lot of anger about the president of Yoon Suk Yeol about the declaration of emergency martial law, and if the person who is the one who continues to attend the Constitutional Court's trial and shows no remorse like this, you can be concerned about whether it will be so good for national sentiment.
[Anchor]
The speed came while we were talking about the Constitutional Court. The news is that the special police team summoned Lee Sang-min, the former Minister of Public Administration and Security, who is suspected of rebellion. It was found that he attended the special investigation team at around 2 p.m. just a moment ago.
[Anchor]
Former Minister Lee is suspected of sympathizing with Yoon Suk Yeol's declaration of emergency martial law on the 3rd. The Cho Kuk Innovation Party and civic groups filed a complaint against former Minister Lee on charges of rebellion under Article 87 of the Criminal Act, and the National Assembly asked the former Minister Lee to attend on the 9th.
[Anchor]
And on the 8th, former minister Lee was banned from leaving the country. I'll tell you what kind of story comes out of today's summons as soon as it comes out. Let's talk more about the Constitutional Court. The fact that there are six judges in the Constitutional Court, which currently has nine judges, will be a variable, and two of them are scheduled to retire in April next year. What kind of variables will these situations be?
[Lim Joo-hye]
That's right. Originally, the Constitutional Court judges were judged by nine people, but in the case of an impeachment trial, six out of nine people must cite impeachment so that impeachment can be processed. Six of these nine people seem to mean a lot. So, if there are more than five people, the majority is secured, so impeachment is possible only when at least two-thirds or six people approve, but since there are six constitutional judges, impeachment is only possible when all of them approve, and this is also considered an issue. That is why we are rapidly adding and appointing three constitutional judges to the National Assembly, while some judges are now leaving office, which is also considered a variable. As you mentioned earlier, the retirement of two judges is scheduled from now on April 18th. If so, there will be two more vacancies from the next day, so this is also an issue of how to fill this part or whether the results of this impeachment trial will come out before that.
[Anchor]
I'll give you a breaking news. A little while ago, news broke that an arrest warrant was issued for Special Forces Commander Kwak Jong-geun in relation to emergency martial law. At the time of the declaration of the emergency decree, he is considered to have been involved in putting the 707 Special Task Force, called the Beheading Unit, into the National Assembly. And at the time of martial law, he was directly instructed by President Yoon to bring it up, and he also testified like this.
Earlier, the special investigation headquarters of the prosecution's emergency martial law was on the 14th. He requested an arrest warrant for former commander Kwak on charges of engaging in important missions of rebellion and obstructing the exercise of the right to abuse his authority. This morning, former commander Kwak attended the military court in the central area of Yongsan-gu, Seoul, to examine the warrant. This is the appearance of attending a military court in plain clothes. When asked by reporters what they would explain to the court while attending today, I just bowed my head and entered the court without saying anything. Eventually, the news that Special Forces Commander Kwak Jong-geun, an arrest warrant was issued came in breaking news.
And the results of the arrest of Lee Jin-woo, commander of the Capital Defense Command, are expected as early as today, and Army Chief of Staff Park An-soo, who was the martial law commander, is scheduled to be examined tomorrow morning. All of them have been charged with important mission workers and abuse of authority. Commander Kwak Jong-geun has been arrested and a warrant has been issued. I will also ask our professor about lawyer Lim Joo-hye's answer. There are now six constitutional judges and two are scheduled to retire in April next year, and some predict that the Constitutional Court will make a judgment before April next year.
[Charge]
It is common for the Constitutional Court to do its best to see that if two judges become vacant from April 19, the acting president has no power to appoint a presidential justice to the Constitutional Court, and when President Park Geun Hye was actually impeached, Acting President Hwang Kyo-ahn could not appoint a presidential justice for that reason. Then, seven people have to make a decision on the impeachment trial, but if so, just two people oppose it, it will be dismissed. Therefore, there will be some difficulties for the public to understand in that regard, so we should proceed with the pleading process as soon as possible to reach a conclusion.
[Anchor]
According to the briefing on the results of today's meeting of the Constitutional Court, Judge Lee Mi-sun, who is coming out now, has been appointed as a life judge. Does that part also contain the Constitutional Court's will to conclude before Judge Lee Mi-sun leaves office?
[Charge]
That may not necessarily be the case. So, the life judge is the judge in charge of evidence investigation or pleading procedures, and we are the kind of judge who appoints about two people separately to take charge of this. [Anchor] Judge Lee Mi-sun and Jeong Hyeong-sik were appointed as life judges.
[Charge]
So Judge Jeong Hyeong-sik is a recently appointed judge, right? So out of these six minutes, I think I actually did it without that consideration. Inside, inside, there will be such a system. So, I think it's too much to see it as such a willingness to finish this until I leave office.
[Anchor]
It is said that the chief judge will be private, but how will it be selected? Is it random, what do you think?
[Charge]
I think we'll probably pick the people we think are most appropriate through a meeting of judges. So, in my opinion, the reason why Judge Lee Mi-sun was elected as a life judge is the longest after Judge Moon Hyung-bae, so I've probably dealt with cases a lot, so relatively others may not be familiar with their work yet because they are recently appointed, so it's probably not appropriate to be a life judge because Judge Lee Mi-sun is needed and Judge Moon Hyung-bae is now acting as an acting director. That's why I guess it was appointed like this.
[Anchor]
I've pointed out the expected procedures and key issues several times in the future.Ma, but as a constitutional scholar, what are the key issues and controversial issues?
[Charge]
So, after reading the impeachment motion, the reasons for impeachment can be divided into two main reasons. One is the procedural and substantive nature of declaring emergency martial law. And the other is rebellion. It looks like this. So if the crime of rebellion is established, it's self-evident. It's obvious that you should be fired. And considering the unconstitutionality and illegality of declaring emergency martial law, there are many procedural defects.It seems difficult to admit the seriousness of the law violation enough to dismiss the fact that there is a procedural defect. Then, a substantial defect becomes a problem, but it is unconstitutional to invoke emergency martial law when it cannot be a requirement.Ma can be divided on whether this is a serious violation of the law enough to dismiss.
Then there are some things that declare emergency martial law and the contents of the martial law decree are unconstitutional, especially among the acts of implementing the decree, Kwak Jong-geun, commander of the Special Forces Command, testified that he instructed lawmakers to pull out the lawmakers quickly before the quorum was filled in order to interfere with the decision to lift martial law. So if it is recognized as true, I think the seriousness of the violation of the law itself is a reason to be recognized. There are also testimonies suggesting that he ran an arrest team, ordered the arrest of politicians and journalists, and illegal imprisonment. Is this true? Because there are some conflicting statements between the police chief and the first deputy director of the National Intelligence Service Hong Jang-won.
It doesn't fit, the list doesn't fit, and the place you're being told to confine yourself continues to fit. And since the police chief said that he tore it up when he had a list of notes, there is no evidence left and there is no recording now, so President Yoon's deputies are likely to argue very much about these things. So if this is admitted to be true, it's my personal opinion in itself.I think that the seriousness of the violation of the law is recognized, so it deserves to be dismissed.
[Anchor]
President Yoon Suk Yeol said he would not give up even after the impeachment bill was passed. A little while ago, Kwak Jong-geun.
It seems that the screen shows the commander of the
special warfare returning home after issuing an arrest warrant. Let's take a look at the screen at that time.
Special Forces Commander Kwak Jong-geun, you are watching him return home after issuing a warrant. You're looking at moving to
detention center.
You're not returning home, but you're looking at them moving directly to the detention center.
The warrant has been executed. You're watching the scene where we're moving to a detention center.
I'll correct it again. Special Warfare Commander Kwak Jong-geun has been issued an arrest warrant, so he does not return home. It's moving to a detention center. There's no answer to the reporters' questions right now. You're watching us get into the vehicle quickly, get into the convoy, and move to the detention center.
He's covering his face a lot. You're seeing them moving from the Central District Military Court to the detention center.
Kwak Jong-geun, former commander of the Army Special Warfare Command, received a warrant review today. A warrant has been issued and we are now on board a convoy and moving to a detention center.
The results of the arrest warrant for Lee Jin-woo, commander of the Capital Defense Command, are expected to be released within today. I'll give you the news as soon as it comes out.
The investigation is progressing rapidly like this, and the Constitutional Court is busy according to the Constitutional Court. What logic will President Yoon Suk Yeol put forward in the future to fight back legally?
[Lim Joo-hye]
I think we can get that hint from President Yoon Suk Yeol's statement. If you look at the contents of the statement, you are referring to the legitimacy of the purpose of declaring martial law, that is, your situation in which you had no choice but to declare martial law. Perhaps I will continue to maintain the argument on this part and talk about the legitimacy of the purpose of declaring emergency martial law. And as a result, martial law was lifted by the National Assembly's resolution, so I think I will exercise my defense rights in the future based on the fact that I exercised my power to exercise within the boundaries of the law, and that there was no violation of the law or serious violation of the law that led to impeachment.
[Anchor] Apart from the Constitutional Court's judgment, the second trial, including the case of the Public Official Election Act by Democratic Party Chairman Lee Jae-myung, is also being held in the court. As a result, there are predictions that the time fight between the two sides will be fierce over this. There is a related recording. Let's talk again after listening to the recording.
[Cho Eung-cheon / General Special Adviser of the New Reform Party (SBS Radio 'Kim Tae-hyun's Political Show') : (Do you think President Yoon Suk Yeol will be able to come back again this time, or will it not be easy this time? ) I think it's going to be hard. But I'll keep playing bed soccer. (That's going to drag on the impeachment process? ) So this is the 11th statement? There was a time when I did it for 29 minutes. (It's probably Thursday. ) Yes, 29 minutes. You're going to split that into small pieces and continue it in the Constitutional Court. He asked me to do a live broadcast. So, he broke the opposition party, he broke the leader Lee Jae-myung, and he talked about himself. I was really trying to scare you, but you'll keep saying things like, "Would I have done this stupidly?" (You're going to drag out the lawsuit? ) We will make the most of 180 days. (How do you think CEO Lee Jae-myung's election law trial will proceed? I think the power of the people sees it as deliberately delaying litigation. ) First of all, I haven't heard that I've received the notice of receipt of the lawsuit record yet. I don't even get a notice of receipt for a month, and even if I get it today, I'll get an appeal within 20 days. Then it will be two months. Then, can the appeal be completed in a month and 10 days? Moreover, the sentence is usually about two weeks, no matter how short it is. Then, you have to do a hearing once, or you have to do two sentences, but it's impossible in time. CEO Lee Jae-myung knows that well. No matter what criticism you get, this is really a bed soccer game. ]
[Anchor]
I heard Cho Eung-cheon, the general special adviser of the New Reform Party, and he predicted that President Yoon Suk Yeol would play bed soccer. What does this mean?
[Lim Joo-hye]
In the end, I think he said that he would drag on. In fact, the next presidential election could be held again. Since when the presidential election will be held can be a very important time, President Yoon Suk Yeol will also try to extend the period of constitutional trial as much as possible. Among them, we will try to take as much time as possible by using various defense logics and making a large number of submissions such as data if necessary. In fact, time is more urgent on the part of Lee Jae-myung.
If the impeachment trial is recognized and concluded within 180 days, from then on, there is no president. If so, the presidential election must be held within 60 days, and if so, there are various charges that Lee Jae-myung is currently facing, but the fastest trial was on November 15th, not long ago. There was a ruling in the first trial of the Public Official Election Act, and in this first trial, one year in prison and two years of probation. Therefore, since the sentence of the first trial, which is bound to limit the right to run for election, is in a very important position to not run for the next presidential election if the conclusions of the second and third trials are made quickly, it can be evaluated as a very important situation in which both sides can delay their time by calculating the time and delaying the outcome of the trial, which can be called bed soccer, depending on whose results come out quickly.
[Anchor]
So, CEO Lee Jae-myung's timetable. Don't you say that if the appeals court is 3 months and the final trial is 3 months, the final trial should come out within 6 months? Will it be released by May next year?
[Charge]
Originally, the date of sentencing under the Public Official Election Act is called a mandatory regulation. It's something you must keep. According to the Constitutional Court Act, 180 days are called admonition regulations. It's good to keep this, but it's inevitable even if you don't, but the reality seems to be going the other way.
[Anchor]
So it doesn't have to come out then. You mean it might not come out, even though it's a mandatory regulation?
[Charge]
It's a mandatory regulation, but it took more than a year for the first trial to be sentenced within six months. So the truth is that this is wrong.
[Anchor]
But if the results of the appeals court come out now and representative Lee Jae-myung runs for president with the final trial about to be held, what other variables are there in that case?
[Charge]
So this is the president's privilege to remove fluoride in Article 84 of the Constitution. So, if this is the incumbent president, he is not criminally prosecuted except for the crimes of rebellion and foreign exchange. In other words, it is a regulation that does not result in a prosecution. That's why President Yoon is under investigation now is a crime of rebellion, so rebellion is an exception to this privilege of fluoridation. This is because it is a crime that can threaten the existence of a country. However, since Article 84 of the Constitution says that the incumbent president is not prosecuted, can the trial proceedings proceed after the prosecution is filed? With this, there has never been an unprecedented example of this in our constitutional history, and it seems that the people in charge of enacting the constitution and the people in charge of revising the constitution did not predict this at all. So only the inability to prosecute, because how dare a person who is convicted by a lower court go to the presidential election. This was unthinkable.
It was unprecedented and this would have been hard to think of at least five years ago. So opinions are divided in the academic world. Some say that the criminal trial can be carried out after the prosecution is over because it is said that the prosecution will not be prosecuted. In my opinion, the fact that it is not subject to criminal prosecution is not only about the stability of state administration but also about national dignity. The president is not just the head of the administration, but he is also a symbol of the state as the head of state. So it's a disgrace to the country that someone like this is in the presidency and continues to be called to criminal court. So at the end of the day, the purpose of this regulation is not to be called into criminal court. If interpreted to this effect, it is also possible to interpret whether the trial process should be suspended. There's no precedent yet, so I think I'll have to go later.
[Anchor]
There are so many unprecedented things happening that I think we need to see the situation in the future. Looking at the situation in the National Assembly, Democratic Party Chairman Lee Jae-myung continues to urge the National Assembly and the government to participate in the National Assembly and the National Security Council. What does the National Security Council mean?
[Lim Joo-hye]
It's going to be newly made. Let's make it, we're doing it like this, but there are a lot of tasks that are piled up right now. The U.S. presidential election is over. In the face of Trump's inauguration, diplomacy and security are very problematic, and despite the end of the year, there are so many tasks such as the people's livelihood economy, rising exchange rates, and a flurry of tasks that are deepening the anxiety of small business owners, so Chairman Lee Jae-myung is now asking the government and the National Assembly to operate a consultative body and a national stability consultative body, and the Democratic Party of Korea will naturally participate, and the people's power should also actively participate in the national stability consultative body. If it is difficult to participate in all other state affairs, let's talk about the people's power at least in the people's livelihood and economy. However, the National Assembly, especially from the people's power, is still acting as if the Democratic Party of Korea is the ruling party, raising its rhetoric and expressing its opposition to this, saying that the people's power will not participate in the national stability consultative body led by representative Lee Jae-myung, so I think this confusion will continue for the time being.
[Anchor]
However, if the authority to manage state affairs is called the responsibility and authority of Prime Minister Han Deok-soo, or acting president, and Chairman Lee Jae-myung asked to form a national stability consultative body, so let's discuss it together to stabilize state affairs, and I think the legal community is saying that these things may be unconstitutional.
[Charge]
So, depending on what the substance of the State Security Council is, whether it is unconstitutional or not will be divided. This can also be a problem if it is something that caused misunderstanding in the public statement at the time, but if it is intended to lead the political situation together by consulting between the ruling and opposition parties and by consulting between the ruling and opposition parties, then the ruling and opposition parties will consult and advise together while acting as Prime Minister Han Deok-soo. If it's in this dimension, I think it's possible.
[Anchor]
There are many other questions about what kind of authority Prime Minister Han Deok-soo has in his role as acting president and what kind of authority he can't exercise. First of all, is it legally possible to veto the Grain Act, the Insurrection Special Prosecutor Act, and the Special Prosecutor's Office Act, which passed the National Assembly?
[Lim Joo-hye]
Right. The president is in an accident. Since the president's duties have been suspended, Prime Minister Han Deok-soo, who is next in line, is exercising the powers that the president can exercise on behalf of the acting president. However, there is no constitution or law that clearly states how far the acting president can exercise among the constitutional or legal powers that the president can exercise. So, it depends on the interpretation, but what's being talked about in the academic world and what's being discussed in general, there may be active powers among the various powers that the president can have, and there may be some kind of passive powers to maintain the status quo.
If it is an active authority, for example, in the case of appointment, active appointment of someone, or exercise of veto power, it cannot be an active authority because it is considered an authority to actively act. Some passively believe that the National Assembly can only exercise its authority to the extent to which it can agree or maintain the status quo, and others believe that the veto can be exercised because it is the president's authority unless there is an acting role specified in the law. As you mentioned earlier, there is also controversy over whether Prime Minister Han Deok-soo can veto such a bill that is piled up right now as an acting president.
[Anchor]
Constitutionally, it's not impossible, is it?
[Charge]
This is also controversial because, as lawyer Lim explained well, there are not many precedents in constitutional academia.The principle of Ma is limited to passive authority that maintains the status quo and cannot be actively exercised to change the status quo. So, what is clearly recognized as impossible is that the president's share of nomination among the judges of the Constitutional Court is to change the status quo, so acting Hwang Kyo-ahn could not appoint a justice for the president's share of the Constitutional Court. However, the right to reject legislation is divided between academia because it can be viewed differently depending on whether it is maintaining the status quo or is it active to change the status quo.
The right to reject legislation is not exercised by the president as a head of state, but as the head of the administration, it is a control mechanism to prevent hasty legislation due to a number of tyranny by legislative procedures within the separation of powers. But if this can't be exercised, if the acting president can't, for example, there's a problem that you can't veto a law that changes the status quo because there's no budget or it's completely different from the state of affairs. Or even for unconstitutional laws, if they cannot be vetoed, there are cases in which infringement of the basic rights of the people must be neglected. So, if we look at it from that perspective, shouldn't the control mechanism to prevent hasty legislation due to the majority tyranny of the legislature be alive within the separation system of powers? Therefore, it seems reasonable at this time to interpret that the acting authority can also exercise the right to veto the bill.
[Anchor]
I wonder what it was like in the past, but it's going out on a graphic screen right now. Is there a precedent for vetoing and exercising personnel rights during acting Ko Gun and Hwang Kyo-ahn?
[Lim Joo-hye]
There is precedent. After two impeachment cases, Acting President Goh Kun vetoed the Special Act on Compensation for the Massacre of the People in Geochang and the Amnesty Act when President Roh Moo Hyun was suspended from office due to the impeachment trial in 2004. This veto eventually concluded that the bill would be automatically abolished at the end of the National Assembly session. Later, during the Park Geun Hye presidential crisis, Acting President Hwang Kyo-ahn also exercised his personnel and active authority by appointing a constitutional judge. In light of these previous cases, it is not impossible for Acting President Han Deok-soo to actively exercise his veto power in this case, but it seems to be right that he has no choice but to be cautious in consideration of public opinion and the current political situation.
[Anchor]
Through this impeachment, there is a big change in the public's view of the political world, and the flow of public sentiment looking at the situation, we prepared the results of the poll graphically, and we will explain it by looking at the graphic. There are some changes in party support. If you look at the graphic, the support rate of the people's power was 25.7%, while the Democratic Party of Korea's support rate was 52.4%, well over 50%. And since then, 8% of the Cho Kuk Innovation Party, 2.8% of the Reform New Party, and 1.1% of the Progressive Party have appeared. What do you think of the noticeable changes in public sentiment after the impeachment?
[Lim Joo-hye]
Through this impeachment, there have been very sporadic rallies for those who support impeachment and those who oppose impeachment. Looking at the flow of public sentiment among them, the participation of young people in the assembly was also very high. And the mature civic consciousness of the assembly was also very orderly, to the extent that foreign media praised it. So I think this is democracy. In what way and how peaceful our people have shown the restoration of democracy within the boundaries of the bill in the face of the threat of democracy or a precarious situation. I think this is a very notable aspect. As in the previous poll, the gap in approval ratings between political parties is now widening to the maximum after the impeachment, but I think it is an important issue to see how mature our democracy can be and take a step forward through this process.
[Anchor]
In the face of martial law, a survey was also conducted on the credibility of politicians. According to the results, the confidence in National Assembly Speaker Woo Won-sik was quite high at 56%. How did you see the professor?
[Charge]
I also felt very touched when I saw the picture of National Assembly Speaker Woo Won-sik crossing the wall and entering the National Assembly. In addition, we must quickly convene the National Assembly, convene a meeting, propose a request for the lifting of martial law, and speed up, and we must go through due process on these things. Looking at the entire process of demanding the lifting of martial law, I think it was an opportunity for the people, not only me, but also most people, to feel that democracy and the rule of law are still alive in Korea.
[Anchor]
And major media around the world also quickly changed the Korean political situation, from President Yoon's declaration of emergency martial law to the passing of the National Assembly's impeachment. Let me point it out. First, the British daily Guardian. In an analysis article titled "How the President of the Republic of Korea Decided to Fall", he pointed out that while the ruling party provided an opportunity to "resign with dignity," President Yoon chose to raise the stakes of emergency martial law gambling. In other words, this gamble eventually became the "smoking gun" of the impeachment that the opposition party has been looking for for for a long time.
It is a surprising reversal of fate for a former prosecutor who helped impeach former President Park Geun Hye in 2017 and analyzed that President Yoon is now in the same fate as the leader he once investigated.
There are more articles that focused on the dynamics of Korean politics. The New York Times said that President Yoon's term was marked by constant protests and political deadlock, but analyzed that impeachment was the most dramatic "unexpected development."
The Washington Post pointed out that President Yoon's downfall was as fast as its rise. It was analyzed that President Yoon, who was a newbie in politics, only completed half of his five years in office, and could be recorded as the shortest-serving president in the history of Korean democracy.
Chinese state media, including Xinhua News Agency and CCTV, called the third impeachment of all time a "curse of the Blue House" and highlighted the mess. Even though President Yoon moved his office to Yongsan, it became difficult to avoid a bitter fate.
Major Japanese broadcasters, including NHK, were also very interested in breaking news of the passage of President Yoon's impeachment bill during regular broadcasts. Japanese media focused particularly on diplomatic uncertainty in South Korea and concerns over worsening relations between South Korea and Japan.
I've seen the foreign media's reaction to this incident. I think the critical view is generally large.
[Lim Joo-hye]
That's right. The foreign media also released reports very quickly on the political situation in Korea right after martial law. Even after the end of this, foreign media reports on this made a judgment that President Yoon Suk Yeol's declaration of emergency martial law this time was neither legal nor wise for his own political life. I think the main evaluation is to evaluate it like this. Actions that pose a threat to democracy, but there are many articles praising the resilience of democracy on our people's mature citizenship, but it was hasty for the individual president of Yoon Suk Yeol. It seems that this critical view, which was not politically wise, was dominated.
[Anchor]
Let me also point out the investigation. The prosecution once again sent a request for attendance to President Yoon. In addition, the co-operation version also sent an attendance request this morning, but it seems that it has not reached it yet. But should there be some evidence to prove this, delivering a request for attendance at such a rapid pace?
[Charge]
That could happen.Looking at the progress of the investigation, I can't get rid of the concern that the investigative agency that secures the president's whereabouts first takes the lead because of the competition among investigative agencies rather than the last investigation of the leader of the civil war with all the other evidence gathered. It's because the counterintelligence commander and others have just been arrested, so the interrogation about them hasn't been completed. In order to investigate the leader, in fact, the people who hatched underneath them and the key mission workers can be investigated properly after investigating all these people, and when they called the leader to interrogate him with some evidence, they can investigate him properly. If you call the leader first while the investigation into others and accomplices is still not done properly, there are too many holes to escape. Is this a proper investigation? Rather, it is a summons notification to show the public. This is why we know that even if we notify the summons, we will not attend, so we have notified the attendance first, and there is a concern that it is a show in which we are in a hurry to apply for an arrest warrant first.
[Anchor]
I am proceeding now even though I know that I will not attend. But I'm trying to deliver an attendance request to President Yoon like this, but it's still not working. How should I look at this situation?
[Lim Joo-hye]
In fact, I think that's a situation that's inevitable. For President Yoon Suk Yeol, it is not an easy decision to stand in front of the photo line as president or to be investigated even if his job is suspended. So far, it seems that it takes time to set up a defense team and build up your own defense logic. As you mentioned earlier, the prosecution is trying to secure President Yoon Suk Yeol's whereabouts through the Special Investigation Headquarters, and the Joint Investigation Headquarters, which is joined by the police, the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit and the Ministry of National Defense, is also asking President Yoon Suk Yeol to summon him.
Attempts are being made to conduct a recall investigation through various channels, but traffic control is needed quickly, so there is a need to go to a single window for the investigation. As the professor mentioned earlier, it is important to investigate the circumstances or incidents in which the emergency martial law was declared on this day, and among them, there are no serious violations of the law or constitution, and I don't think unconditional speed war is important now. Therefore, I think it is necessary to accurately confirm the allegations through a summons investigation if sufficient evidence is secured after thorough preparation and the need for subpoena is proven.
[Anchor]
We looked at the situation of the political situation and the investigation. So far, we have been with Cha Jin-ah, a professor at Korea University's law school, and lawyer Lim Joo-hye. Thank you.
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■ Starring: Cha Jin-ah, professor of law at Korea University, lawyer Lim Joo-hye
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[Anchor]
Let's look at the fast-paced investigation and political situation after the National Assembly passes the impeachment motion of President Yoon.
Today, we are joined by two lawyers, Cha Jin-ah, a professor at Korea University's law school, and Lim Joo-hye. Please come in.
Half of December has already passed. I wonder how you saw this situation from the Dec. 3 declaration of emergency martial law to the passing of the impeachment motion over the weekend, professor, how was it?
[Charge]
When the emergency decree was declared, everyone, including myself, was probably very surprised and shocked. You must have been very shocked that you sent troops, especially to the people. Fortunately, the National Assembly worked properly to vote on the demand for the lifting of martial law, and the martial law was lifted accordingly, but the impeachment bill was passed last Saturday while the anger and shock of the people were still lingering. Now is the time for the people to calm down this anger and excitement for a while and calm down this confusion, so I think it's time for us to work together to stabilize the state of affairs.
[Anchor]
The first meeting was held at the Constitutional Court today, and Lee Jin, the press officer of the Constitutional Court, briefed on the results of the meeting. The first hearing preparation date is 2 p.m. on Friday, December 27th, so can you say to speed up?
[Lim Joo-hye]
That's right. It was given a case number. 2024 Heona8. The clock has started ticking over President Yoon Suk Yeol's impeachment case. This morning, all the justices gathered to have a meeting and it seems that a discussion has taken place on the overall direction of the case. According to this, the chief judge will also be automatically designated, but previously, the chief judge was disclosed in the case of President Park Geun Hye's impeachment. However, since the original referee is not disclosed, it seems that the decision has been made not to disclose which judge the referee is through discussion this time. It seems that two life-long judges who will proceed with the hearing preparation period have also been decided. There will be a hearing preparation period on the 27th, but the speed of prosecution, police, and investigation is progressing very quickly in relation to the overall situation. As the case is very interested in the public, it is predictable that the impeachment trial will complete the preparatory period as soon as possible and begin full-fledged pleading.
[Anchor]
And in today's briefing on the results of the meeting, there was a statement that the request for an answer to the President's notice of receipt of Yoon Suk Yeol is ongoing. Does the President of Yoon Suk Yeol have an obligation to send a response?
[Charge]
Although it is not obligated, it can be very disadvantageous if you do not send it because it is exercising your right to defend yourself. Therefore, it is predicted that the answer will be sent to refute the reasons for impeachment stated in the impeachment indictment.
[Anchor]
It says that a sentence must be issued within 180 days of the date of filing the case, but what happens? Aren't there cases where the results come out sooner if you see precedents even within 180 days?
[Charge]
This rule, which is said to be within 180 days, does not apply only to the impeachment trial. In principle, all cases under trial by the Constitutional Court are supposed to be completed within 180 days, but in some cases, it takes nearly 10 years to be sentenced, depending on the case. However, the impeachment of the president is due to the suspension of the exercise of authority because it greatly hinders the performance of state affairs. So, we need to proceed with the argument as soon as possible so that the sentence can be made within 180 days.
[Anchor]
How long did it take for the Constitutional Court to judge former President Roh Moo Hyun and former President Park Geun Hye in the past?
[Lim Joo-hye]
The judgment was made within 180 days. In the case of President Roh Moo Hyun, it was finally dismissed, but the decision was made in 63 days. In the case of former President Park Geun Hye, he was dismissed, and the decision was made in 91 days at that time. So, the 180-day period is right, but as the professor mentioned earlier, the importance of the issue and how many event records are together. Depending on how many issues there are to contend with, this period can be sufficiently different, so it is still in the beginning stage, so we need to wait and see when this will be decided.
[Anchor]
For now, the possibility of an impeachment trial and a criminal trial proceeding at the same time is even greater, so please explain this part and what procedures are different.
[Charge]
The criminal trial ends with the charge of the head of the rebellion, and if a prosecution is filed, the criminal trial proceedings will proceed in the general court. And the Constitutional Court's process of being impeached is a kind of special disciplinary process. Therefore, it is not a criminal responsibility procedure, but a disciplinary procedure, which is a kind of administrative punishment, so it is carried out separately.
[Anchor]
It's coming out on the screen right now.Ma is paying a lot of attention to Article 51 of the Constitutional Court Act, suspension of the trial process, and this, so if President Yoon is indicted on charges of rebellion, there is a possibility that the impeachment trial may be suspended. How do you see it?
[Charge]
It's hard to say that there's no possibility, but maybe President Yoon can request a suspension like this, asking him to proceed with the impeachment trial after seeing the first trial sentence in the criminal trial process for rebellion as an agent.It is the discretion of the Constitutional Court whether to suspend this or not. So I'm not obliged to suspend it. And the impeachment trial process against the president needs to proceed as soon as possible to minimize confusion and various obstacles in state affairs, so even if you apply for suspension, it is unlikely that you will accept it.
[Anchor]
And today, lawyer Seok Dong-hyun, who is known to have been President Yoon for 40 years, said on social media that the president's lawyers will help outside for the time being, but are you rejecting this? Or is it a strategic reason?
[Lim Joo-hye]
Looking at what's coming out right now, I think it can be evaluated as a strategic part. In the case of President Yoon Suk Yeol now, it seems very important to set up a defense team as soon as possible. First of all, in the case of a constitutional trial, a defense team must be formed for the impeachment trial. Since a lawyer must be appointed, it is necessary to appoint a lawyer for this part, and according to the media, Seok Dong-hyun, secretary-general of the Advisory Council for Democratic Peace and Unification, will also meet somewhere to talk about future countermeasures, along with Kim Hong-il, former chairman of the Korea Communications Commission, who is now expected to appoint a strong closest lawyer. These articles are also being confirmed.
Whether both of them participate as lawyers together or in the case of Secretary-General Seok, whether they support this part from behind, there seems to be a high possibility that they will play a role as lawyers together. There are a lot of issues to contend with right now. In the case of criminal trials, the crime of rebellion and court sentences are also very high, so not only preparations for criminal trials but also impeachment trials can proceed very quickly, so it seems necessary to form a defense team on this as soon as possible. However, it does not seem easy for President Yoon Suk Yeol to find the right person.
Civil war and impeachment. This is not a field that anyone can handle in general, and it's especially specialized in this area. It doesn't seem easy to find people like this. Therefore, it seems that President Yoon Suk Yeol is also making efforts to form a defense team centered on his closest aides, and if he sets it up with his closest lawyers, it will be clear that the merits are clear. He knows President Yoon Suk Yeol best and can come up with a defense plan in the right way, but on the other hand, because he is a close aide, some point out that it can interfere with objectivity, fairness, or objectively making the best choice, so he seems to be struggling with the appointment of lawyers.
[Anchor]
So, the lawyers that will be set up this time are expected to take charge of the rebellion and the impeachment trial together, so how large are the lawyers expected to be?
[Lim Joo-hye]
In fact, in this case, there are very serious charges and there are many issues to contend with. Therefore, there should be only a few lawyers, and there are no such regulations, and the more complex and controversial cases, the more common it is to include a large number of lawyers. That's why in this case, it's going to be a few people. It's hard to predict this, but I think it's very important for President Yoon Suk Yeol to find a lawyer who can cover it as well as possible and aim to have a large number of lawyers if possible.
[Anchor]
However, I will not give up until the end, saying that I will leave it up to President Yoon's Constitutional Court judgment. Don't you hear that you're making your own argument? What variable will this serve as for the president to go to the constitutional court and defend himself?
[Charge]
There are advantages and disadvantages of that, but if you look at it as an advantage, you can explain it most accurately in that part because you know the situation best, and because you seem to believe this and President Yoon was a special expert, when he was in the prosecution. I think he believes that he has the most legal knowledge on this matter. Of course, there are those parts, but the downside is that no matter how professional a person is, it is difficult to see the matter objectively if he pleads about it directly, so if you do something wrong, you can make an argument that is not convincing from an objective point of view or fail to respond properly to the other person's reason for prosecution. There can be some risks like a kind of confirmatory bias. And if it's a risk, there's a lot of anger about the president of Yoon Suk Yeol about the declaration of emergency martial law, and if the person who is the one who continues to attend the Constitutional Court's trial and shows no remorse like this, you can be concerned about whether it will be so good for national sentiment.
[Anchor]
The speed came while we were talking about the Constitutional Court. The news is that the special police team summoned Lee Sang-min, the former Minister of Public Administration and Security, who is suspected of rebellion. It was found that he attended the special investigation team at around 2 p.m. just a moment ago.
[Anchor]
Former Minister Lee is suspected of sympathizing with Yoon Suk Yeol's declaration of emergency martial law on the 3rd. The Cho Kuk Innovation Party and civic groups filed a complaint against former Minister Lee on charges of rebellion under Article 87 of the Criminal Act, and the National Assembly asked the former Minister Lee to attend on the 9th.
[Anchor]
And on the 8th, former minister Lee was banned from leaving the country. I'll tell you what kind of story comes out of today's summons as soon as it comes out. Let's talk more about the Constitutional Court. The fact that there are six judges in the Constitutional Court, which currently has nine judges, will be a variable, and two of them are scheduled to retire in April next year. What kind of variables will these situations be?
[Lim Joo-hye]
That's right. Originally, the Constitutional Court judges were judged by nine people, but in the case of an impeachment trial, six out of nine people must cite impeachment so that impeachment can be processed. Six of these nine people seem to mean a lot. So, if there are more than five people, the majority is secured, so impeachment is possible only when at least two-thirds or six people approve, but since there are six constitutional judges, impeachment is only possible when all of them approve, and this is also considered an issue. That is why we are rapidly adding and appointing three constitutional judges to the National Assembly, while some judges are now leaving office, which is also considered a variable. As you mentioned earlier, the retirement of two judges is scheduled from now on April 18th. If so, there will be two more vacancies from the next day, so this is also an issue of how to fill this part or whether the results of this impeachment trial will come out before that.
[Anchor]
I'll give you a breaking news. A little while ago, news broke that an arrest warrant was issued for Special Forces Commander Kwak Jong-geun in relation to emergency martial law. At the time of the declaration of the emergency decree, he is considered to have been involved in putting the 707 Special Task Force, called the Beheading Unit, into the National Assembly. And at the time of martial law, he was directly instructed by President Yoon to bring it up, and he also testified like this.
Earlier, the special investigation headquarters of the prosecution's emergency martial law was on the 14th. He requested an arrest warrant for former commander Kwak on charges of engaging in important missions of rebellion and obstructing the exercise of the right to abuse his authority. This morning, former commander Kwak attended the military court in the central area of Yongsan-gu, Seoul, to examine the warrant. This is the appearance of attending a military court in plain clothes. When asked by reporters what they would explain to the court while attending today, I just bowed my head and entered the court without saying anything. Eventually, the news that Special Forces Commander Kwak Jong-geun, an arrest warrant was issued came in breaking news.
And the results of the arrest of Lee Jin-woo, commander of the Capital Defense Command, are expected as early as today, and Army Chief of Staff Park An-soo, who was the martial law commander, is scheduled to be examined tomorrow morning. All of them have been charged with important mission workers and abuse of authority. Commander Kwak Jong-geun has been arrested and a warrant has been issued. I will also ask our professor about lawyer Lim Joo-hye's answer. There are now six constitutional judges and two are scheduled to retire in April next year, and some predict that the Constitutional Court will make a judgment before April next year.
[Charge]
It is common for the Constitutional Court to do its best to see that if two judges become vacant from April 19, the acting president has no power to appoint a presidential justice to the Constitutional Court, and when President Park Geun Hye was actually impeached, Acting President Hwang Kyo-ahn could not appoint a presidential justice for that reason. Then, seven people have to make a decision on the impeachment trial, but if so, just two people oppose it, it will be dismissed. Therefore, there will be some difficulties for the public to understand in that regard, so we should proceed with the pleading process as soon as possible to reach a conclusion.
[Anchor]
According to the briefing on the results of today's meeting of the Constitutional Court, Judge Lee Mi-sun, who is coming out now, has been appointed as a life judge. Does that part also contain the Constitutional Court's will to conclude before Judge Lee Mi-sun leaves office?
[Charge]
That may not necessarily be the case. So, the life judge is the judge in charge of evidence investigation or pleading procedures, and we are the kind of judge who appoints about two people separately to take charge of this. [Anchor] Judge Lee Mi-sun and Jeong Hyeong-sik were appointed as life judges.
[Charge]
So Judge Jeong Hyeong-sik is a recently appointed judge, right? So out of these six minutes, I think I actually did it without that consideration. Inside, inside, there will be such a system. So, I think it's too much to see it as such a willingness to finish this until I leave office.
[Anchor]
It is said that the chief judge will be private, but how will it be selected? Is it random, what do you think?
[Charge]
I think we'll probably pick the people we think are most appropriate through a meeting of judges. So, in my opinion, the reason why Judge Lee Mi-sun was elected as a life judge is the longest after Judge Moon Hyung-bae, so I've probably dealt with cases a lot, so relatively others may not be familiar with their work yet because they are recently appointed, so it's probably not appropriate to be a life judge because Judge Lee Mi-sun is needed and Judge Moon Hyung-bae is now acting as an acting director. That's why I guess it was appointed like this.
[Anchor]
I've pointed out the expected procedures and key issues several times in the future.Ma, but as a constitutional scholar, what are the key issues and controversial issues?
[Charge]
So, after reading the impeachment motion, the reasons for impeachment can be divided into two main reasons. One is the procedural and substantive nature of declaring emergency martial law. And the other is rebellion. It looks like this. So if the crime of rebellion is established, it's self-evident. It's obvious that you should be fired. And considering the unconstitutionality and illegality of declaring emergency martial law, there are many procedural defects.It seems difficult to admit the seriousness of the law violation enough to dismiss the fact that there is a procedural defect. Then, a substantial defect becomes a problem, but it is unconstitutional to invoke emergency martial law when it cannot be a requirement.Ma can be divided on whether this is a serious violation of the law enough to dismiss.
Then there are some things that declare emergency martial law and the contents of the martial law decree are unconstitutional, especially among the acts of implementing the decree, Kwak Jong-geun, commander of the Special Forces Command, testified that he instructed lawmakers to pull out the lawmakers quickly before the quorum was filled in order to interfere with the decision to lift martial law. So if it is recognized as true, I think the seriousness of the violation of the law itself is a reason to be recognized. There are also testimonies suggesting that he ran an arrest team, ordered the arrest of politicians and journalists, and illegal imprisonment. Is this true? Because there are some conflicting statements between the police chief and the first deputy director of the National Intelligence Service Hong Jang-won.
It doesn't fit, the list doesn't fit, and the place you're being told to confine yourself continues to fit. And since the police chief said that he tore it up when he had a list of notes, there is no evidence left and there is no recording now, so President Yoon's deputies are likely to argue very much about these things. So if this is admitted to be true, it's my personal opinion in itself.I think that the seriousness of the violation of the law is recognized, so it deserves to be dismissed.
[Anchor]
President Yoon Suk Yeol said he would not give up even after the impeachment bill was passed. A little while ago, Kwak Jong-geun.
It seems that the screen shows the commander of the
special warfare returning home after issuing an arrest warrant. Let's take a look at the screen at that time.
Special Forces Commander Kwak Jong-geun, you are watching him return home after issuing a warrant. You're looking at moving to
detention center.
You're not returning home, but you're looking at them moving directly to the detention center.
The warrant has been executed. You're watching the scene where we're moving to a detention center.
I'll correct it again. Special Warfare Commander Kwak Jong-geun has been issued an arrest warrant, so he does not return home. It's moving to a detention center. There's no answer to the reporters' questions right now. You're watching us get into the vehicle quickly, get into the convoy, and move to the detention center.
He's covering his face a lot. You're seeing them moving from the Central District Military Court to the detention center.
Kwak Jong-geun, former commander of the Army Special Warfare Command, received a warrant review today. A warrant has been issued and we are now on board a convoy and moving to a detention center.
The results of the arrest warrant for Lee Jin-woo, commander of the Capital Defense Command, are expected to be released within today. I'll give you the news as soon as it comes out.
The investigation is progressing rapidly like this, and the Constitutional Court is busy according to the Constitutional Court. What logic will President Yoon Suk Yeol put forward in the future to fight back legally?
[Lim Joo-hye]
I think we can get that hint from President Yoon Suk Yeol's statement. If you look at the contents of the statement, you are referring to the legitimacy of the purpose of declaring martial law, that is, your situation in which you had no choice but to declare martial law. Perhaps I will continue to maintain the argument on this part and talk about the legitimacy of the purpose of declaring emergency martial law. And as a result, martial law was lifted by the National Assembly's resolution, so I think I will exercise my defense rights in the future based on the fact that I exercised my power to exercise within the boundaries of the law, and that there was no violation of the law or serious violation of the law that led to impeachment.
[Anchor] Apart from the Constitutional Court's judgment, the second trial, including the case of the Public Official Election Act by Democratic Party Chairman Lee Jae-myung, is also being held in the court. As a result, there are predictions that the time fight between the two sides will be fierce over this. There is a related recording. Let's talk again after listening to the recording.
[Cho Eung-cheon / General Special Adviser of the New Reform Party (SBS Radio 'Kim Tae-hyun's Political Show') : (Do you think President Yoon Suk Yeol will be able to come back again this time, or will it not be easy this time? ) I think it's going to be hard. But I'll keep playing bed soccer. (That's going to drag on the impeachment process? ) So this is the 11th statement? There was a time when I did it for 29 minutes. (It's probably Thursday. ) Yes, 29 minutes. You're going to split that into small pieces and continue it in the Constitutional Court. He asked me to do a live broadcast. So, he broke the opposition party, he broke the leader Lee Jae-myung, and he talked about himself. I was really trying to scare you, but you'll keep saying things like, "Would I have done this stupidly?" (You're going to drag out the lawsuit? ) We will make the most of 180 days. (How do you think CEO Lee Jae-myung's election law trial will proceed? I think the power of the people sees it as deliberately delaying litigation. ) First of all, I haven't heard that I've received the notice of receipt of the lawsuit record yet. I don't even get a notice of receipt for a month, and even if I get it today, I'll get an appeal within 20 days. Then it will be two months. Then, can the appeal be completed in a month and 10 days? Moreover, the sentence is usually about two weeks, no matter how short it is. Then, you have to do a hearing once, or you have to do two sentences, but it's impossible in time. CEO Lee Jae-myung knows that well. No matter what criticism you get, this is really a bed soccer game. ]
[Anchor]
I heard Cho Eung-cheon, the general special adviser of the New Reform Party, and he predicted that President Yoon Suk Yeol would play bed soccer. What does this mean?
[Lim Joo-hye]
In the end, I think he said that he would drag on. In fact, the next presidential election could be held again. Since when the presidential election will be held can be a very important time, President Yoon Suk Yeol will also try to extend the period of constitutional trial as much as possible. Among them, we will try to take as much time as possible by using various defense logics and making a large number of submissions such as data if necessary. In fact, time is more urgent on the part of Lee Jae-myung.
If the impeachment trial is recognized and concluded within 180 days, from then on, there is no president. If so, the presidential election must be held within 60 days, and if so, there are various charges that Lee Jae-myung is currently facing, but the fastest trial was on November 15th, not long ago. There was a ruling in the first trial of the Public Official Election Act, and in this first trial, one year in prison and two years of probation. Therefore, since the sentence of the first trial, which is bound to limit the right to run for election, is in a very important position to not run for the next presidential election if the conclusions of the second and third trials are made quickly, it can be evaluated as a very important situation in which both sides can delay their time by calculating the time and delaying the outcome of the trial, which can be called bed soccer, depending on whose results come out quickly.
[Anchor]
So, CEO Lee Jae-myung's timetable. Don't you say that if the appeals court is 3 months and the final trial is 3 months, the final trial should come out within 6 months? Will it be released by May next year?
[Charge]
Originally, the date of sentencing under the Public Official Election Act is called a mandatory regulation. It's something you must keep. According to the Constitutional Court Act, 180 days are called admonition regulations. It's good to keep this, but it's inevitable even if you don't, but the reality seems to be going the other way.
[Anchor]
So it doesn't have to come out then. You mean it might not come out, even though it's a mandatory regulation?
[Charge]
It's a mandatory regulation, but it took more than a year for the first trial to be sentenced within six months. So the truth is that this is wrong.
[Anchor]
But if the results of the appeals court come out now and representative Lee Jae-myung runs for president with the final trial about to be held, what other variables are there in that case?
[Charge]
So this is the president's privilege to remove fluoride in Article 84 of the Constitution. So, if this is the incumbent president, he is not criminally prosecuted except for the crimes of rebellion and foreign exchange. In other words, it is a regulation that does not result in a prosecution. That's why President Yoon is under investigation now is a crime of rebellion, so rebellion is an exception to this privilege of fluoridation. This is because it is a crime that can threaten the existence of a country. However, since Article 84 of the Constitution says that the incumbent president is not prosecuted, can the trial proceedings proceed after the prosecution is filed? With this, there has never been an unprecedented example of this in our constitutional history, and it seems that the people in charge of enacting the constitution and the people in charge of revising the constitution did not predict this at all. So only the inability to prosecute, because how dare a person who is convicted by a lower court go to the presidential election. This was unthinkable.
It was unprecedented and this would have been hard to think of at least five years ago. So opinions are divided in the academic world. Some say that the criminal trial can be carried out after the prosecution is over because it is said that the prosecution will not be prosecuted. In my opinion, the fact that it is not subject to criminal prosecution is not only about the stability of state administration but also about national dignity. The president is not just the head of the administration, but he is also a symbol of the state as the head of state. So it's a disgrace to the country that someone like this is in the presidency and continues to be called to criminal court. So at the end of the day, the purpose of this regulation is not to be called into criminal court. If interpreted to this effect, it is also possible to interpret whether the trial process should be suspended. There's no precedent yet, so I think I'll have to go later.
[Anchor]
There are so many unprecedented things happening that I think we need to see the situation in the future. Looking at the situation in the National Assembly, Democratic Party Chairman Lee Jae-myung continues to urge the National Assembly and the government to participate in the National Assembly and the National Security Council. What does the National Security Council mean?
[Lim Joo-hye]
It's going to be newly made. Let's make it, we're doing it like this, but there are a lot of tasks that are piled up right now. The U.S. presidential election is over. In the face of Trump's inauguration, diplomacy and security are very problematic, and despite the end of the year, there are so many tasks such as the people's livelihood economy, rising exchange rates, and a flurry of tasks that are deepening the anxiety of small business owners, so Chairman Lee Jae-myung is now asking the government and the National Assembly to operate a consultative body and a national stability consultative body, and the Democratic Party of Korea will naturally participate, and the people's power should also actively participate in the national stability consultative body. If it is difficult to participate in all other state affairs, let's talk about the people's power at least in the people's livelihood and economy. However, the National Assembly, especially from the people's power, is still acting as if the Democratic Party of Korea is the ruling party, raising its rhetoric and expressing its opposition to this, saying that the people's power will not participate in the national stability consultative body led by representative Lee Jae-myung, so I think this confusion will continue for the time being.
[Anchor]
However, if the authority to manage state affairs is called the responsibility and authority of Prime Minister Han Deok-soo, or acting president, and Chairman Lee Jae-myung asked to form a national stability consultative body, so let's discuss it together to stabilize state affairs, and I think the legal community is saying that these things may be unconstitutional.
[Charge]
So, depending on what the substance of the State Security Council is, whether it is unconstitutional or not will be divided. This can also be a problem if it is something that caused misunderstanding in the public statement at the time, but if it is intended to lead the political situation together by consulting between the ruling and opposition parties and by consulting between the ruling and opposition parties, then the ruling and opposition parties will consult and advise together while acting as Prime Minister Han Deok-soo. If it's in this dimension, I think it's possible.
[Anchor]
There are many other questions about what kind of authority Prime Minister Han Deok-soo has in his role as acting president and what kind of authority he can't exercise. First of all, is it legally possible to veto the Grain Act, the Insurrection Special Prosecutor Act, and the Special Prosecutor's Office Act, which passed the National Assembly?
[Lim Joo-hye]
Right. The president is in an accident. Since the president's duties have been suspended, Prime Minister Han Deok-soo, who is next in line, is exercising the powers that the president can exercise on behalf of the acting president. However, there is no constitution or law that clearly states how far the acting president can exercise among the constitutional or legal powers that the president can exercise. So, it depends on the interpretation, but what's being talked about in the academic world and what's being discussed in general, there may be active powers among the various powers that the president can have, and there may be some kind of passive powers to maintain the status quo.
If it is an active authority, for example, in the case of appointment, active appointment of someone, or exercise of veto power, it cannot be an active authority because it is considered an authority to actively act. Some passively believe that the National Assembly can only exercise its authority to the extent to which it can agree or maintain the status quo, and others believe that the veto can be exercised because it is the president's authority unless there is an acting role specified in the law. As you mentioned earlier, there is also controversy over whether Prime Minister Han Deok-soo can veto such a bill that is piled up right now as an acting president.
[Anchor]
Constitutionally, it's not impossible, is it?
[Charge]
This is also controversial because, as lawyer Lim explained well, there are not many precedents in constitutional academia.The principle of Ma is limited to passive authority that maintains the status quo and cannot be actively exercised to change the status quo. So, what is clearly recognized as impossible is that the president's share of nomination among the judges of the Constitutional Court is to change the status quo, so acting Hwang Kyo-ahn could not appoint a justice for the president's share of the Constitutional Court. However, the right to reject legislation is divided between academia because it can be viewed differently depending on whether it is maintaining the status quo or is it active to change the status quo.
The right to reject legislation is not exercised by the president as a head of state, but as the head of the administration, it is a control mechanism to prevent hasty legislation due to a number of tyranny by legislative procedures within the separation of powers. But if this can't be exercised, if the acting president can't, for example, there's a problem that you can't veto a law that changes the status quo because there's no budget or it's completely different from the state of affairs. Or even for unconstitutional laws, if they cannot be vetoed, there are cases in which infringement of the basic rights of the people must be neglected. So, if we look at it from that perspective, shouldn't the control mechanism to prevent hasty legislation due to the majority tyranny of the legislature be alive within the separation system of powers? Therefore, it seems reasonable at this time to interpret that the acting authority can also exercise the right to veto the bill.
[Anchor]
I wonder what it was like in the past, but it's going out on a graphic screen right now. Is there a precedent for vetoing and exercising personnel rights during acting Ko Gun and Hwang Kyo-ahn?
[Lim Joo-hye]
There is precedent. After two impeachment cases, Acting President Goh Kun vetoed the Special Act on Compensation for the Massacre of the People in Geochang and the Amnesty Act when President Roh Moo Hyun was suspended from office due to the impeachment trial in 2004. This veto eventually concluded that the bill would be automatically abolished at the end of the National Assembly session. Later, during the Park Geun Hye presidential crisis, Acting President Hwang Kyo-ahn also exercised his personnel and active authority by appointing a constitutional judge. In light of these previous cases, it is not impossible for Acting President Han Deok-soo to actively exercise his veto power in this case, but it seems to be right that he has no choice but to be cautious in consideration of public opinion and the current political situation.
[Anchor]
Through this impeachment, there is a big change in the public's view of the political world, and the flow of public sentiment looking at the situation, we prepared the results of the poll graphically, and we will explain it by looking at the graphic. There are some changes in party support. If you look at the graphic, the support rate of the people's power was 25.7%, while the Democratic Party of Korea's support rate was 52.4%, well over 50%. And since then, 8% of the Cho Kuk Innovation Party, 2.8% of the Reform New Party, and 1.1% of the Progressive Party have appeared. What do you think of the noticeable changes in public sentiment after the impeachment?
[Lim Joo-hye]
Through this impeachment, there have been very sporadic rallies for those who support impeachment and those who oppose impeachment. Looking at the flow of public sentiment among them, the participation of young people in the assembly was also very high. And the mature civic consciousness of the assembly was also very orderly, to the extent that foreign media praised it. So I think this is democracy. In what way and how peaceful our people have shown the restoration of democracy within the boundaries of the bill in the face of the threat of democracy or a precarious situation. I think this is a very notable aspect. As in the previous poll, the gap in approval ratings between political parties is now widening to the maximum after the impeachment, but I think it is an important issue to see how mature our democracy can be and take a step forward through this process.
[Anchor]
In the face of martial law, a survey was also conducted on the credibility of politicians. According to the results, the confidence in National Assembly Speaker Woo Won-sik was quite high at 56%. How did you see the professor?
[Charge]
I also felt very touched when I saw the picture of National Assembly Speaker Woo Won-sik crossing the wall and entering the National Assembly. In addition, we must quickly convene the National Assembly, convene a meeting, propose a request for the lifting of martial law, and speed up, and we must go through due process on these things. Looking at the entire process of demanding the lifting of martial law, I think it was an opportunity for the people, not only me, but also most people, to feel that democracy and the rule of law are still alive in Korea.
[Anchor]
And major media around the world also quickly changed the Korean political situation, from President Yoon's declaration of emergency martial law to the passing of the National Assembly's impeachment. Let me point it out. First, the British daily Guardian. In an analysis article titled "How the President of the Republic of Korea Decided to Fall", he pointed out that while the ruling party provided an opportunity to "resign with dignity," President Yoon chose to raise the stakes of emergency martial law gambling. In other words, this gamble eventually became the "smoking gun" of the impeachment that the opposition party has been looking for for for a long time.
It is a surprising reversal of fate for a former prosecutor who helped impeach former President Park Geun Hye in 2017 and analyzed that President Yoon is now in the same fate as the leader he once investigated.
There are more articles that focused on the dynamics of Korean politics. The New York Times said that President Yoon's term was marked by constant protests and political deadlock, but analyzed that impeachment was the most dramatic "unexpected development."
The Washington Post pointed out that President Yoon's downfall was as fast as its rise. It was analyzed that President Yoon, who was a newbie in politics, only completed half of his five years in office, and could be recorded as the shortest-serving president in the history of Korean democracy.
Chinese state media, including Xinhua News Agency and CCTV, called the third impeachment of all time a "curse of the Blue House" and highlighted the mess. Even though President Yoon moved his office to Yongsan, it became difficult to avoid a bitter fate.
Major Japanese broadcasters, including NHK, were also very interested in breaking news of the passage of President Yoon's impeachment bill during regular broadcasts. Japanese media focused particularly on diplomatic uncertainty in South Korea and concerns over worsening relations between South Korea and Japan.
I've seen the foreign media's reaction to this incident. I think the critical view is generally large.
[Lim Joo-hye]
That's right. The foreign media also released reports very quickly on the political situation in Korea right after martial law. Even after the end of this, foreign media reports on this made a judgment that President Yoon Suk Yeol's declaration of emergency martial law this time was neither legal nor wise for his own political life. I think the main evaluation is to evaluate it like this. Actions that pose a threat to democracy, but there are many articles praising the resilience of democracy on our people's mature citizenship, but it was hasty for the individual president of Yoon Suk Yeol. It seems that this critical view, which was not politically wise, was dominated.
[Anchor]
Let me also point out the investigation. The prosecution once again sent a request for attendance to President Yoon. In addition, the co-operation version also sent an attendance request this morning, but it seems that it has not reached it yet. But should there be some evidence to prove this, delivering a request for attendance at such a rapid pace?
[Charge]
That could happen.Looking at the progress of the investigation, I can't get rid of the concern that the investigative agency that secures the president's whereabouts first takes the lead because of the competition among investigative agencies rather than the last investigation of the leader of the civil war with all the other evidence gathered. It's because the counterintelligence commander and others have just been arrested, so the interrogation about them hasn't been completed. In order to investigate the leader, in fact, the people who hatched underneath them and the key mission workers can be investigated properly after investigating all these people, and when they called the leader to interrogate him with some evidence, they can investigate him properly. If you call the leader first while the investigation into others and accomplices is still not done properly, there are too many holes to escape. Is this a proper investigation? Rather, it is a summons notification to show the public. This is why we know that even if we notify the summons, we will not attend, so we have notified the attendance first, and there is a concern that it is a show in which we are in a hurry to apply for an arrest warrant first.
[Anchor]
I am proceeding now even though I know that I will not attend. But I'm trying to deliver an attendance request to President Yoon like this, but it's still not working. How should I look at this situation?
[Lim Joo-hye]
In fact, I think that's a situation that's inevitable. For President Yoon Suk Yeol, it is not an easy decision to stand in front of the photo line as president or to be investigated even if his job is suspended. So far, it seems that it takes time to set up a defense team and build up your own defense logic. As you mentioned earlier, the prosecution is trying to secure President Yoon Suk Yeol's whereabouts through the Special Investigation Headquarters, and the Joint Investigation Headquarters, which is joined by the police, the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit and the Ministry of National Defense, is also asking President Yoon Suk Yeol to summon him.
Attempts are being made to conduct a recall investigation through various channels, but traffic control is needed quickly, so there is a need to go to a single window for the investigation. As the professor mentioned earlier, it is important to investigate the circumstances or incidents in which the emergency martial law was declared on this day, and among them, there are no serious violations of the law or constitution, and I don't think unconditional speed war is important now. Therefore, I think it is necessary to accurately confirm the allegations through a summons investigation if sufficient evidence is secured after thorough preparation and the need for subpoena is proven.
[Anchor]
We looked at the situation of the political situation and the investigation. So far, we have been with Cha Jin-ah, a professor at Korea University's law school, and lawyer Lim Joo-hye. Thank you.
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