■ Host: Anchor Yoon Bori, anchor Kim Myung-geun, anchor
■ Starring: Lee Joon-woo, member of the People's Power Media Special Committee, Cho Dae-hyun, former head of the Office of the Prime Minister,
* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information. Please specify [YTN News Special] when quoting.
[Anchor]
The ruling and opposition parties reacted differently when a sitting president was arrested for the first time in constitutional history.
[Anchor]
The people's power criticized the judiciary for losing trust, and the Democratic Party evaluated it as the cornerstone of the constitutional order. Let's take a closer look at the details with Lee Joon-woo, a member of the People's Power Media Special Committee, and Cho Dae-hyun, former head of the Office of the Prime Minister. Hello.
[Anchor]
Early this morning, Yoon Suk Yeol's president was finally arrested. This is the fifth arrest in history, including the former president. I'm curious about the atmosphere inside both parties. First of all, how about the power of the people?
[Lee Junwoo]
It was a very somber atmosphere after hearing the news at dawn. Above all, there was a lot of such a serious atmosphere about the fairness of the judiciary. We have to respect the judiciary's decision. In a country of separation of powers, the last bastion of the rule of law is the judiciary, so it must be respected, but the judiciary's procedures so far show that it is very fair. In particular, whether the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit has the authority to investigate We have consistently argued for this issue from the beginning. We have no authority, so in the process of executing it, there was an illegal process of issuing arrest warrants, and there was an unprecedented sentence inside the arrest warrant excluding Articles 110 and 111 of the Criminal Procedure Act, creating suspicions that the arrest warrant was illegal.
Then, the most problematic thing is that CEO Lee Jae-myung is facing 12 charges in eight cases and five trials are underway. Representative Lee Jae-myung is outside without arrest. There was also a reason why he was not arrested at that time because he was the leader of the opposition party. The same goes for Rep. Cho Kuk. Rep. Cho Kuk was also sentenced to prison in the second trial, but he was not arrested. Nevertheless, is there any fairness in the judiciary to arrest and issue an arrest warrant for an incumbent president in just a month? It's natural to raise the issue. However, isn't there a physical conflict in front of the Western District Court yesterday? There should be no physical conflict between the two sides, whether police or rallyers. It's a position that expresses concern about that.
[Anchor]
Mr. Cho, how is the atmosphere in the opposition party?
[Cho Dae-hyun]
All the people watched last night's situation with a miserable and heartbroken heart, and I think it is miserable and disastrous for the Democratic Party officials, officials and supporters to see the president, the leader of the country, being arrested, although not as much as lawmakers and supporters of the People's Power. However, more than that, I think it is a natural result that the arrest warrant is executed yesterday. an unprecedented violence that followed Seeing this, we have a lot of things to go in the future and we are worried a lot. It coincides with the time of violence when Trump's supporters, who objected to the presidential election results in the United States four years ago, stormed the U.S. Congress, the center of democracy.
We also think that the court is the last bastion of judicial proceedings, and if so, it is very worrisome that the court, which can be called the last bastion of procedural democracy, was brutally violated by such violence yesterday. From now on, we have to cross the river of impeachment. I think we, many people, and the people have already crossed the river of impeachment, but it seems that a very small percentage of the people's power and Yoon Suk Yeol supporters are making this situation on the other side of the river right now. I'm worried a lot.
[Anchor]
Now let's talk about the investigation in earnest. The Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit has notified the President of his attendance today.Ma said the president refused to comply today and he will be back tomorrow at 10 a.m.It seems unlikely that it will dry up. Some say that the controversy over the jurisdiction regulations has also been resolved as the body's pride has been rejected, but the president is still trying not to investigate the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit. What do you think?
[Lee Junwoo]
From the beginning, the presidential office consistently raised the question of the legality of the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit's investigative authority. So far, the question has not changed. If the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit can investigate the crime of rebellion, which can lead to the death penalty due to abuse of authority, the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit can investigate all charges. It is a gross violation of the Corruption Investigations Unit Act. The president's position is that he cannot receive it because it violates the Public Offices Act. Also, looking at the behavior of Senior Superintendent of Public Offenses Oh Dong-woon, what is his purpose? It's very questionable whether it's for investigation or arrest. Because there is a controversy that it was rejected after requesting an arrest warrant from the Seoul Central District Court from the beginning.
Because of that, there is a controversy that the Western District Court has requested a second warrant, and another thing is that only the Western District Court has requested a warrant all the time, but suddenly it goes to the Western District Court, which is a very exceptional case. It's right to claim a warrant according to the principle. It's also a problem that you've claimed something exceptional. But why did you go there? I went because there was a judge in charge of warrants, Lee Soo-young and Oh Dong-gun, the head of the Airborne Division, were both former members of the Korean Legal Research Institute. As a result, I can't shake off the suspicion that it was aimed at seeking a warrant and issuing a warrant for a specific political purpose. In addition, when the second arrest warrant is issued, Articles 110 and 111 of the Criminal Code, which were in question, will be issued with them deleted. What does this mean? Didn't you admit to yourself that the warrant you issued at first was wrong, that it was illegal?
And finally, he even forged official documents on the 55th Guard's entry and attempted to enter the official residence as if he had been granted permission. These were not the purpose of the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit, but the arrest and disgrace of the president. We have no choice but to doubt whether there is a political intention. So, the fairness of the results is important in the law, but if the process is not fair, the unfair process will have to run toward a purpose that has already been concluded, so I think it is very inappropriate to be investigated by the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit. Currently, the Korean Law Research Association is being criticized for being a member of the judiciary, but I think it is a situation in which the president's office is very dissatisfied with the cartel of the judiciary.
[Anchor]
President Yoon continues to refuse the investigation, saying that the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit does not have the right to investigate, so what should the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit do now? Should we consider forced travel as well?
[Cho Dae-hyun]
Well, it's the first time the president has been arrested, and I personally have many questions about whether this should be enforced. Of course, we're also reviewing forced deportation, and this is what I'm hearing on the news. He wants to cooperate with the investigation without going to such a situation. As Commissioner Lee Joon-woo pointed out, President Yoon Suk Yeol will not be able to investigate the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit, an investigative agency that does not have the right to investigate. Another thing is that martial law is an act of governance, but it is not subject to investigation. It's not a crime of rebellion. It's legal martial law and it was lifted in a very short period of time, so it doesn't make sense to talk about it as a rebellion, and it's not subject to investigation. It's not a crime. I reject it in those two points, but if you look at it that way, you can only say that you will not only respond to the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit but also to the subsequent judicial proceedings. Of course, it's consistent. It is all the more worrisome because the president of Yoon Suk Yeol is consistent that he has not responded to everything so far, but he is not responding to any of these judicial procedures.
[Anchor]
If it's an objection stage that can be used before the prosecution's indictment, you're asking me to see if it's appropriate to be investigated while in custody. I'll ask you first if you think you're going to use this card.
[Jo Dae-hyun]
I think you'll use up all the cards you can use up. I've used all the cards I can play so far. Didn't you really use the unimaginable and unprecedented arresting pride? However, I think you should carefully judge whether it is advantageous for you to use these things. By applying for an arrest suit and being dismissed by it, Lee Joon-woo, a member of the committee, has been saying that he is shopping for warrants to the court for various problems so far, but these have all been sorted out in one try. You've been back to the Central District Court, haven't you?
If you look at it like that, I think I'll use it.Ma is more and more of a basis for showing that President Yoon Suk Yeol's claims are unfounded, so it is better to focus on the legal principles and respond calmly legally to the process of the Constitutional Court's judgment and various rebellion investigations. I don't think this very inflammatory and message-oriented response will ever help the Yoon Suk Yeol suspect.
[Anchor]
The president has been continuing to file objections.Ma creates an image of a president who fights against this, a president who resists it, and his party's approval rating for the ruling party goes up.On the one hand, there is also an opinion that the investigation of the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit is justified because the results continue to be dismissed. What do you think about this?
[Lee Junwoo]
I don't think so. It's not as if the president is conscious of his supporters and sends any messages or takes legal action. From the beginning, he has already declared that he will consistently engage in all legal disputes without being conscious of his supporters. He said he would take legal responsibility and political responsibility. As a result, it led to impeachment now, and then to detectives, isn't it? Therefore, the president's message or legal action has nothing to do with his approval rating, but the approval rating of the 2030 generation who support the president has risen. Perhaps the 20s and 30s seem to sympathize very much with the current president's declaration of martial law and the opposition party's paralysis of the government's function with representative Lee Jae-myung's huge seat. As soon as the government was inaugurated, three months later, the opposition began to mention impeachment. And then six months later, the first impeachment. There have been 29 impeachment since then. When I looked at it, I impeached him 1.3 times a month. This is enough to paralyze the functioning of the government. Didn't he wield his parliamentary power in the opposition party with a complete determination? You can see it like this. So, I think we should look at it like this, that the 2030 generation sympathizes with this. I think there is something like this about the current high approval rating of the president. a check hearing on representative Lee Jae-myung So you mentioned Xie Xie Xie about China and you mentioned the United States as an occupying force, didn't you? Because of the antipathy to that, the approval rating is rising, and the president is taking a stand to increase his approval rating. Or, I don't think I can say that I am actively responding to legal action.
[Anchor]
On the other hand, President Yoon's continued objections such as arresting pride and, in a way, his strategy of holding out stimulated his supporters and eventually led to court riots such as yesterday and today. Some pointed out this, but what do you think of this part?
[Cho Dae-hyun]
I'm very sorry about that. I think the biggest responsibility for this is with the President of Yoon Suk Yeol. The president of Yoon Suk Yeol called it officialdom. During the month-long government-in-house politics, he wrote letters to protesters outside, and on the last day, he made a video in a very urgent way while the arrest warrant was executed. It was also on the news that it was taken with the cell phone of an administrative officer or a security officer, but it means that he is very focused on sending messages outside. In this way, by continuing to show this message that his actions absolutely refuse to comply with the judicial process, I am also refusing to comply with the judicial process, so please help me out there. It's like this. That's why there's even a situation where you break into the court now.
What's really worrisome is that not long ago, former lawmaker Kim Min's white bone problem was very noisy, but on that day, lawmaker Yoon Sang-hyun even exchanged messages with his supporters and said, "You can do it, you can do it." Didn't you say this? I'll keep helping you because you're going to the U.S. like this. In fact, lawmaker Yoon Sang-hyun cannot move on like this. You have to take legal responsibility later on. It's like inciting protests and such violent acts. At the center of it are very strong messages from President Yoon Suk Yeol and continuous messages. In addition, I think it is a serious problem for some lawmakers who are conscious of the next election and are only engaged in such activities by their own election party politics and their political schedule. Even now, I think it's time to be cautious and to crack down on yourself so that it doesn't lead to such violence.
[Anchor]
Lawmaker Yoon Sang-hyun said, "I did not sympathize with the violence in terms of what lawmaker Yoon Sang-hyun said after that." Are you in the same position on that?
[Cho Dae-hyun]
I'm saying that because the situation is getting harder, but seeing that it's been released, I'm talking about 17 people. The one who first moved on. So that night, before the violence at dawn, didn't 17 people enter and get dragged out? I texted them about them and said that they will be given a discount and will be checked one by one. If saying that it's okay is not to help or encourage violence, I think many people were very encouraged by the message of Representative Yoon Sang-hyun, and those things worked.
[Anchor]
In the midst of this, President Yoon unveiled his position in prison this afternoon. There are comments saying that they are continuously focusing on public opinion. We have entered the so-called prison politics, can we look at it like this?
[Lee Junwoo]
That's too much to look at. Because prison politics may seem like the president is exercising some kind of presidential power even in prison, but the president is currently prosecuted. Aren't you undergoing a trial in the Constitutional Court and also in a criminal trial? If the investigation continues, there will be a trial. In such a situation, the president is currently suspended from his duties, but he is the president. But what about the Democratic Party now? I'm trying to cover up the whole nation by doing martial law on Kakao Talk.
In addition, it was reported yesterday that the government discussed public opinion manipulation comments mobilizing lawmakers or aides in connection with public opinion manipulation. So when the Democratic Party creates fake news and sends out incitement messages like that, does the president have to stand by? The President is the party. Let's go like this as a party, especially Representative Lee Jae-myung, who had a false interview with Kim Man-bae and Shin Hak-rim in the past, actively sent more than 4 million group texts before his presidential election and right before voting to actively participate in fake news and lies. Under these circumstances, why should we remain silent just because President Yoon Suk Yeol is in prison? Should I be defenseless? I don't think so. The minimum expression of position should be guaranteed for the contents to be contested in court and the contents to be contested in the Constitutional Court. I think it's a defense measure.
[Cho Dae-hyun]
I'd like to add a word. Just before I entered the broadcast here, I saw a report that it was a Facebook message from former Supreme Council member Kim Jae-won. I think this is the act of responding to President Yoon Suk Yeol's message politics, and it was very interesting and surprising. Yoon, who is imprisoned despite the current situation, will bring down prisoner Lee Jae-myung. And together I pay tribute to the great crusaders. And I expressed it as a temple. How could this happen? Seeing the judiciary so violated this early morning, the whole nation is angry, worried, and worried about the trauma of violence.
Don't you think the protesters are heading for the Constitutional Court today? How can you express this when you have to watch the news while worrying about it in real time? I think this is how President Yoon Suk Yeol responds to and responds to that because he is engaged in such message politics. It's the present that should be avoided.
[Anchor]
It is true that he made the remarks with this intention, saying that if we look back on what lawmaker Yoon Sang-hyun said just a moment ago, he will be dismissed soon. Let's talk about floor leader Kwon Sung-dong for a moment. Kwon Sung-dong, the floor leader of the party, said, "We cannot hold protesters responsible alone unilaterally. I asked for a fact-finding investigation into police overreaction. What do you think?
[Cho Dae-hyun]
So, do you really have the will to deal with this situation? The person most responsible for the current situation is President Yoon Suk Yeol and President Yoon Suk Yeol, the suspect of civil war, but at the same time, the power of the people to produce such a president must feel a great responsibility. Isn't the power of the people an emergency system called the emergency committee? The party is in a situation where the leadership system has collapsed and a new emergency system has been established. One of the pillars responsible for causing such a situation is the power of the people, and Kwon Sung-dong, the floor leader who is now the two-top in the power of the people, said this, and Kwon Young-se, chairman of the emergency committee, said something similar. Is it really asking us to settle the political situation normally and go this way to make the situation worse, or is it trying not to lose the initiative in the face of the early presidential election because the people's power has already entered the early presidential election? Rather than the party's partisan politics, I think it would be better to end the future of the country and people's anxiety and act like a ruling party in terms of economic stability.
[Anchor]
What do you think of the ruling party's investigation into police overreaction?
[Lee Junwoo]
Before that, I talked about the message of Representative Kim Jae-won earlier. In short, Lee Hae-sik talked about Lee Jae-myung as a priest of God, and Choi Min-hee said he would kill Lee Jae-myung if he moved. On that, the party's position moved on, saying it was the personal opinion of the lawmakers. Same thing. It may be true about Kim Jae-won's remarks, but it's a personal opinion. How can this be the party's overall opinion? I don't think it's right to talk too quietly. I think it's wrong to do this because the police are being damaged unilaterally. Now, there are cases where protesters have been unilaterally damaged by the police.
For example, police were passing by for no reason and kicked a tripod where a camera had been placed by protesters. And another thing, a young police officer pushed an old man over and knocked his head on the ground. And then throw away a middle-aged woman. I knocked him down hard with both arms and threw him away. These things stack up one by one on the spot as the protesters watch all of them. The police are not in front of the protesters to maintain order, but the police first use violence against the protesters. As this perception accumulated, a consensus was formed. So if we're in such a state of excitement now, would the protesters who witnessed it stay still? Shouldn't you be beaten by the police? That's how you feel and everyone gets excited. It is very wrong to unilaterally hold protesters accountable without pointing out the police who provided such a cause. I think it's right to deal with everything fairly.
It is also said that many public interest lawyers have come forward in this regard. There are many people involved in yesterday's protest at Yeongdeungpo Police Station, but public interest lawyers are coming out to give free arguments, and many volunteers are coming out. In any case, there should be no physical conflict or violence. We agree on that.E says that what we are dealing with should be treated fairly.
[Anchor]
Earlier, Chief Cho said that lawmaker Yoon Sang-hyun texted him at the time of the court rampage, saying that he could do this, but he texted me that he would be released soon after the investigation to be exact. We'll correct this part a little bit.
[Cho Dae-hyun]
So what I'm telling you is not that Rep. Yoon Sang-hyun can do that, but that he will actually be released soon, to be exact. I think I said it to the effect that you don't have to worry because I'm going to be released soon. That's what rationalizes these actions and actually encourages them.
[Anchor]
In this regard, Democratic Party Chairman Lee Jae-myung also expressed his position. Let's listen to it firsthand and continue with the conversation.
[Anchor]
Chairman Lee Jae-myung of the Democratic Party only mentioned the riot and directly avoided the arrest of President Yoon. What kind of intentions do you have?
[Cho Dae-hyun]
Well, I can't guess what CEO Lee Jae-myung's personal intentions are. As everyone feels, what was surprising yesterday was the situation in which an arrest warrant was executed for a Yoon Suk Yeol suspect, but violence was rampant in the court that took place right after that time. This situation was really a big concern for us. In that respect, I think the fact that Representative Lee Jae-myung said that today is important, but he is saying that there should be no more violence in the future and that we should move on to a new phase.
[Lee Junwoo]
He talks as if it's someone else's business across the river, as if Lee Jae-myung had nothing to do with the riot. Going back to the cause, there is a problem with the speed of Lee Jae-myung's judicial process. President Yoon Suk Yeol is progressing at a very fast pace in just three or four weeks. Haven't you been dragging on CEO Lee Jae-myung for years? It is very inappropriate for CEO Lee Jae-myung, who provided the cause, to talk as if it were someone else's work. And another thing, CEO Lee Jae-myung is on the 23rd. It's this Thursday. At that time, a trial related to the appeal trial will be held at the Seoul High Court. But what if Representative Lee Jae-myung doesn't mention the president of Yoon Suk Yeol here? Then, isn't it as if Lee Jae-myung decided to look at the case against himself with the Seoul High Court? It has the effect of being misunderstood. Maybe that's why he doesn't mention President Yoon Suk Yeol at all. Whether it's the Western District Court or the Airborne Division. That's why I suspected that he didn't mention it. Another thing is that nearly 40% of the polls say Lee Jae-myung can never do it. That's why I think Lee Jae-myung did not mention the president of Yoon Suk Yeol because he was afraid that the opinion poll that the mention of the president should never be seen as a side effect.
[Anchor]
To move on to the security story, President Yoon was arrested, but the security of the security service continues as he maintains his current status. YTN alone met Kim Sung-hoon, the deputy head of the bodyguard, who was released when the prosecution rejected the arrest warrant in the morning. Let's hear what they said.
[Anchor]
He said he would stay in the detention center 24 hours a day to protect him. I don't think the security agency would have thought of security in the detention center. At what level is security?
[Lee Junwoo]
It's an unprecedented situation, so everything we've done so far... It's our first time meeting them, so we have to respond at that time. a president in a detention center A detention center is a facility where you can't go out or go inside. Nevertheless, receiving the highest level of security in it is still valid under the Kueng Protection Act, so I think the security should go in and give close-up security together.
Also, inside the Seoul Detention Center, you may have overlapping movements or contacting other inmates. There could also be such a problem. Another meal will be served, and of course, that won't happen in the case of the president.Don't you know Ma? So, there may be things like a separate verification from the security service about the president's meal provision. In addition, representative Cho Kuk is currently in the Seoul Detention Center. If Representative Cho Kuk sent a message mocking or inciting the president of Yoon Suk Yeol, an inmate who sympathizes with it may act. Isn't it right for the security service to be close-up in preparation for such a case? Therefore, according to the Security Service Act, I think the security level suitable for the highest level of president should be maintained in consultation with the Ministry of Justice.
[Anchor]
In particular, Deputy Director Kim Sung-hoon made and sang songs for the president along with the charges of blocking the execution of the arrest warrant for President Yoon. There is also a controversy over such private use. The person in charge denies that this is just a stage of celebrating a birthday that can be common among friends, but not at all like this.
[Cho Dae-hyun]
When you talk about friendship between the president and colleagues at work, can the president and the deputy chief of the security service be considered friends or colleagues at work? I don't think it makes sense to have that kind of metaphor
. Apart from the question of whether this is a legal problem, the relationship between the president and his aides and so-called close people should not be a mixture of such personal and public duties. In the past, during the Park Geun Hye presidency, Choi Soon-sil and the public corporation were indistinguishable, leading to the manipulation of state affairs, right? Of course, what we're paying attention to now is that it deals with such a big issue of rebellion, so it's hidden because it deals with the big issue of rebellion created by martial law, but these parts seem to be very unable to distinguish construction. And even though it's peripheral, it's young these days for the MZ generation, but it's the same for any organization, especially the public service.
I've been in public office until recently, but I don't really have a company dinner. If you don't have a company dinner often, it's better to give you a coupon. That's true, but why don't we have a party and make a song and do this for our boss? Isn't it really common to say that it gives you goosebumps? It's a very shameful thing that people close to the most powerful part of the Republic of Korea did this before the legal matter.
[Anchor]
The political battle continues to be a special prosecutor. The revision of the Insurrection Special Prosecutor Act led by the opposition party was passed by the National Assembly, and although the Democratic Party said it has accepted a large number of demands for the people's power, the people's power continues to be unconstitutional and a hasty special prosecutor.
[Lee Junwoo]
That's right. You shouldn't have put the current foreign exchange crime in the first place. However, it is the same as the last time when you look at the foreign exchange crime exclusion right before the plenary session of the National Assembly after proposing it now. Last time, didn't you commit rebellion while filing an impeachment motion, but later after going to the Constitutional Court, you cleared yourself of rebellion again? I don't know what the hell you're doing to put and take out the legal agenda in this way. There is no respect for the law or the Constitution. I have no choice but to tell you that I'm doing it in a very partisan way. In particular, it is currently available so that the general public, including members of the People's Power, can investigate a wide range of investigation targets. I would also like to say that I am opposed to that because too broad an investigation is rather causing inconvenience to the people.
[Anchor]
I think the Democratic Party of Korea listened to some of the things that the ruling party demanded, such as the exclusion of foreign exchange crimes, when the independent counsel agreed, but do you expect additional votes?
[Cho Dae-hyun]
Well, strategically, if you look at the problem of whether you do it or not while calculating additional departure votes, there are criticisms of the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit from the Yoon Suk Yeol, but the same is true of the Democratic Party. In that sense, haven't many people watched not only about the special prosecutor, but also in the process of executing a warrant? If you look at it that way, I'm talking about the special prosecutor as a way to solve such a problem. In any case, the ruling and opposition parties agreed to gather it as a special prosecutor. Since Acting President Choi Sang-mok has been demanding the agreement between the ruling and opposition parties and the resolution of unconstitutionality, in fact, isn't the core of the resolution of unconstitutionality and the agreement between the ruling and opposition parties the unconstitutionality of the so-called recommendation? If you look at it like that, I've actually solved that part.
After having a peripheral problem and this problem has been solved, if we talk about another problem, we can't proceed. If you look at it that way, I know that in the case of a re-decision, unlike the first decision, it is probably an anonymous vote. If you look at it that way, wouldn't you make a reasonable judgment within the power of the people? It's really not for the Democrats to make this situation even more uncertain right now. I think we should make a reasonable decision because it's not for the Democratic Party, but for the power of the Democratic Party, the people, the whole people, and the entire political community.
[Anchor]
However, even if this is passed right away and an independent counsel is set up right now, it will take about 20 days before the launch of the special prosecutor's office, so wouldn't the prosecution have already indicted President Yoon by then? That's why there are criticisms that the special prosecutor is too late.
[Lee Junwoo]
That's right. That's why the Special Prosecutor Act is very political. It has already entered a state where a special prosecutor is not needed. Currently, the Minister of National Defense, the Chief of Army Staff, the commander of the defense command, and the Commissioner of the National Police Agency are all arrested and charged. Who else are you investigating? When I asked him, he asked him like this during negotiations, and he said that the Democratic Party does this. It is said that investigations into junior officers and non-commissioned officers who worked for them are needed, and most of them are young people. It is the purpose of the National Assembly's political use of this issue by dealing with it, and to shame the president by calling him to the National Assembly. There is nothing but this. Therefore, I think it is right for Acting President Choi Sang-mok to exercise his right to demand reconsideration on this.
[Anchor]
It's a story after a confinement pride.Ma, do you think there is a difference from the special prosecutor if the prosecution even indicts the president?
[Lee Junwoo]
That's right when you're arrested and prosecuted. It has to go regardless of the special prosecutor, and the problem of the special prosecutor is that the special prosecutor takes all the case records investigated by the prosecution, police, and the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit. So what's new if the special prosecutor takes this from what the prosecution, police, and airborne offices are doing now? It's already been all stamped on the record. In my view, isn't the president's right to object at the Constitutional Court? I think it's for that purpose to call the president to the National Assembly for political purposes in order to interfere with the right to object or to greatly neutralize the right to object.
[Anchor]
What do you think, Mr. Cho?
[Cho Dae-hyun]
This problem continues to be a problem because the organization called the prosecution has been causing distrust in the people. Isn't that why you created an agency called the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit and made some of the investigative powers independent? After that, the special prosecutor should have launched the investigation as soon as possible and made efforts to eliminate such things as duplication and confusion in the investigation.
In this regard, the ruling party should have actively conducted a special prosecution earlier, but the ruling and opposition parties agree that the special prosecution bill is currently in place. The ruling party was almost accepted as it originally claimed. If you look at it that way, it would be nice if the investigation would be carried out after the special prosecution was launched and then the special prosecution would go through this process, but at this time, the prosecution could actually prosecute and move on to the special prosecution as Lee Joon-woo said. Aren't you going to continue the first and second trials after the prosecution as well as the prosecution? And it's necessary to maintain the prosecution.
Of course, this is not to say that the special prosecutor will be launched and the first and second trials will continue. People's anxiety if you look at it that way. As I said earlier, the public distrust of the prosecution is very high. Considering these things, I think it would be right for this investigation to launch an independent counsel quickly to prosecute the rest of the schedule by the independent counsel or even proceed with the post-indictment process.
[Lee Junwoo]
The president has only one body, including the prosecution, the police, the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit, the Constitutional Court, and the independent counsel. If the National Assembly even conducts a special investigation, this can be more counterproductive in the eyes of the public. In order to give this perception that both sides are faithfully being tried fairly by law, it is very wrong to forcefully make all the forms of trials and forcefully call the president, I think.
[Cho Dae-hyun]
If the independent counsel is launched, it will be transferred to the independent counsel, and as Lee said, it will be more considerate of the suspect because it will be done by the independent counsel, not by several places.
[Anchor]
Even if it is passed, wouldn't Acting President Choi Sang-mok veto it in the National Assembly?
[Cho Dae-hyun]
from what we have done so far And there are two things that acting Choi Sang-mok said. One is for the ruling and opposition parties to come to an agreement. And the other is unconstitutionality, unconstitutionality of recommendations. Remove the unconstitutionality. In fact, as I said earlier, one of the reasons why the ruling and opposition parties did not agree is because of the authority to recommend. But didn't you solve this part? And besides that, most of the investigation scope, manpower, and duration are what the ruling party wants. I think it's almost the same.
If so, is there any justification for the acting Choi Sang-mok to reject it when he handed it back over to the acting Choi Sang-mok? If you give the reason that the ruling and opposition parties have not reached an agreement even in this situation, it will probably be accepted that it should not be about an agreement between the ruling and opposition parties, but should do as the ruling party wishes. Therefore, there is a possibility that Choi will reject it if he only sees it on the surface, but I think he should accept it if he sees it in that way.
[Anchor]
Now let's change the story and talk about the president and the ruling party. Do you think the president and the ruling party will maintain the same stance even if the prosecution's investigation begins and the Constitutional Court's impeachment trial gains momentum? Or do you think you'll be concerned about the early presidential election?
[Lee Junwoo]
I think it's very early to talk about the early presidential election. Isn't it either cited or rejected when the Constitutional Court hasn't concluded? Not only is it very inappropriate to mention the early presidential election when it is not concluded, but the support of the president and the people is very high. Rather, it is said that the party's approval rating has surpassed that of the Democratic Party. Perhaps the president's approval rating will exceed 50 percent this week. As such prospects are being made, the president's preparation for an early presidential election by making a prediction as if the impeachment citation was confirmed in this situation could bring about a huge backlash. Therefore, there will probably be no preparation for the early presidential election or any such move, I think so.
[Anchor]
However, according to the results of the poll, the theory of regime change is superior to the theory of regime maintenance, but the support of the Democratic Party and the people has reversed. How should I interpret this part?
[Cho Dae-hyun]
In this regard, I think there should be various self-reflection and reflection from the standpoint of the Democratic Party. Of course, very few surveys are not without problems with sampling, as some say. So I think it'll probably be a legal issue as well.
[Anchor]
So do you think the conservatives are more oversampled?
[Cho Dae-hyun]
Yes, there is no such thing. Overall, however, it's important to see how many to what polls show, but more importantly, it's the tendency of what we often say is a trend. There was clearly a lot of detachment from the Democratic Party. I was very disappointed in the Democratic Party. You can see these things. There are many reasons for that, but I think so.
Expectations for the power of the people have already disappeared at this stage. The Democratic Party of Korea has a majority and has never expected the Democratic Party of Korea in such an unprecedented situation. If so, I think it reflects how much the Democratic Party has demonstrated in the process since December 3rd, how much has it demonstrated its political ability, how much it has demonstrated, and how much it has been able to persuade and lead the government and the ruling party to solve the problem, sometimes making concessions and doing so.
Isn't the recommendation of the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court just out now for the special prosecution? The people are disappointed as to why they couldn't solve the problem like this. So even now, I think this is a warning from the Democratic Party, so I think we should go so that the Democratic Party can analyze the issue well and win the hearts of the people again.
[Anchor]
We'll stop listening to you two today. So far, we have been with Lee Joon-woo, a member of the Special Committee on People's Power Media, and Cho Dae-hyun, former head of the Office of the Prime Minister.
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■ Starring: Lee Joon-woo, member of the People's Power Media Special Committee, Cho Dae-hyun, former head of the Office of the Prime Minister,
* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information. Please specify [YTN News Special] when quoting.
[Anchor]
The ruling and opposition parties reacted differently when a sitting president was arrested for the first time in constitutional history.
[Anchor]
The people's power criticized the judiciary for losing trust, and the Democratic Party evaluated it as the cornerstone of the constitutional order. Let's take a closer look at the details with Lee Joon-woo, a member of the People's Power Media Special Committee, and Cho Dae-hyun, former head of the Office of the Prime Minister. Hello.
[Anchor]
Early this morning, Yoon Suk Yeol's president was finally arrested. This is the fifth arrest in history, including the former president. I'm curious about the atmosphere inside both parties. First of all, how about the power of the people?
[Lee Junwoo]
It was a very somber atmosphere after hearing the news at dawn. Above all, there was a lot of such a serious atmosphere about the fairness of the judiciary. We have to respect the judiciary's decision. In a country of separation of powers, the last bastion of the rule of law is the judiciary, so it must be respected, but the judiciary's procedures so far show that it is very fair. In particular, whether the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit has the authority to investigate We have consistently argued for this issue from the beginning. We have no authority, so in the process of executing it, there was an illegal process of issuing arrest warrants, and there was an unprecedented sentence inside the arrest warrant excluding Articles 110 and 111 of the Criminal Procedure Act, creating suspicions that the arrest warrant was illegal.
Then, the most problematic thing is that CEO Lee Jae-myung is facing 12 charges in eight cases and five trials are underway. Representative Lee Jae-myung is outside without arrest. There was also a reason why he was not arrested at that time because he was the leader of the opposition party. The same goes for Rep. Cho Kuk. Rep. Cho Kuk was also sentenced to prison in the second trial, but he was not arrested. Nevertheless, is there any fairness in the judiciary to arrest and issue an arrest warrant for an incumbent president in just a month? It's natural to raise the issue. However, isn't there a physical conflict in front of the Western District Court yesterday? There should be no physical conflict between the two sides, whether police or rallyers. It's a position that expresses concern about that.
[Anchor]
Mr. Cho, how is the atmosphere in the opposition party?
[Cho Dae-hyun]
All the people watched last night's situation with a miserable and heartbroken heart, and I think it is miserable and disastrous for the Democratic Party officials, officials and supporters to see the president, the leader of the country, being arrested, although not as much as lawmakers and supporters of the People's Power. However, more than that, I think it is a natural result that the arrest warrant is executed yesterday. an unprecedented violence that followed Seeing this, we have a lot of things to go in the future and we are worried a lot. It coincides with the time of violence when Trump's supporters, who objected to the presidential election results in the United States four years ago, stormed the U.S. Congress, the center of democracy.
We also think that the court is the last bastion of judicial proceedings, and if so, it is very worrisome that the court, which can be called the last bastion of procedural democracy, was brutally violated by such violence yesterday. From now on, we have to cross the river of impeachment. I think we, many people, and the people have already crossed the river of impeachment, but it seems that a very small percentage of the people's power and Yoon Suk Yeol supporters are making this situation on the other side of the river right now. I'm worried a lot.
[Anchor]
Now let's talk about the investigation in earnest. The Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit has notified the President of his attendance today.Ma said the president refused to comply today and he will be back tomorrow at 10 a.m.It seems unlikely that it will dry up. Some say that the controversy over the jurisdiction regulations has also been resolved as the body's pride has been rejected, but the president is still trying not to investigate the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit. What do you think?
[Lee Junwoo]
From the beginning, the presidential office consistently raised the question of the legality of the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit's investigative authority. So far, the question has not changed. If the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit can investigate the crime of rebellion, which can lead to the death penalty due to abuse of authority, the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit can investigate all charges. It is a gross violation of the Corruption Investigations Unit Act. The president's position is that he cannot receive it because it violates the Public Offices Act. Also, looking at the behavior of Senior Superintendent of Public Offenses Oh Dong-woon, what is his purpose? It's very questionable whether it's for investigation or arrest. Because there is a controversy that it was rejected after requesting an arrest warrant from the Seoul Central District Court from the beginning.
Because of that, there is a controversy that the Western District Court has requested a second warrant, and another thing is that only the Western District Court has requested a warrant all the time, but suddenly it goes to the Western District Court, which is a very exceptional case. It's right to claim a warrant according to the principle. It's also a problem that you've claimed something exceptional. But why did you go there? I went because there was a judge in charge of warrants, Lee Soo-young and Oh Dong-gun, the head of the Airborne Division, were both former members of the Korean Legal Research Institute. As a result, I can't shake off the suspicion that it was aimed at seeking a warrant and issuing a warrant for a specific political purpose. In addition, when the second arrest warrant is issued, Articles 110 and 111 of the Criminal Code, which were in question, will be issued with them deleted. What does this mean? Didn't you admit to yourself that the warrant you issued at first was wrong, that it was illegal?
And finally, he even forged official documents on the 55th Guard's entry and attempted to enter the official residence as if he had been granted permission. These were not the purpose of the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit, but the arrest and disgrace of the president. We have no choice but to doubt whether there is a political intention. So, the fairness of the results is important in the law, but if the process is not fair, the unfair process will have to run toward a purpose that has already been concluded, so I think it is very inappropriate to be investigated by the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit. Currently, the Korean Law Research Association is being criticized for being a member of the judiciary, but I think it is a situation in which the president's office is very dissatisfied with the cartel of the judiciary.
[Anchor]
President Yoon continues to refuse the investigation, saying that the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit does not have the right to investigate, so what should the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit do now? Should we consider forced travel as well?
[Cho Dae-hyun]
Well, it's the first time the president has been arrested, and I personally have many questions about whether this should be enforced. Of course, we're also reviewing forced deportation, and this is what I'm hearing on the news. He wants to cooperate with the investigation without going to such a situation. As Commissioner Lee Joon-woo pointed out, President Yoon Suk Yeol will not be able to investigate the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit, an investigative agency that does not have the right to investigate. Another thing is that martial law is an act of governance, but it is not subject to investigation. It's not a crime of rebellion. It's legal martial law and it was lifted in a very short period of time, so it doesn't make sense to talk about it as a rebellion, and it's not subject to investigation. It's not a crime. I reject it in those two points, but if you look at it that way, you can only say that you will not only respond to the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit but also to the subsequent judicial proceedings. Of course, it's consistent. It is all the more worrisome because the president of Yoon Suk Yeol is consistent that he has not responded to everything so far, but he is not responding to any of these judicial procedures.
[Anchor]
If it's an objection stage that can be used before the prosecution's indictment, you're asking me to see if it's appropriate to be investigated while in custody. I'll ask you first if you think you're going to use this card.
[Jo Dae-hyun]
I think you'll use up all the cards you can use up. I've used all the cards I can play so far. Didn't you really use the unimaginable and unprecedented arresting pride? However, I think you should carefully judge whether it is advantageous for you to use these things. By applying for an arrest suit and being dismissed by it, Lee Joon-woo, a member of the committee, has been saying that he is shopping for warrants to the court for various problems so far, but these have all been sorted out in one try. You've been back to the Central District Court, haven't you?
If you look at it like that, I think I'll use it.Ma is more and more of a basis for showing that President Yoon Suk Yeol's claims are unfounded, so it is better to focus on the legal principles and respond calmly legally to the process of the Constitutional Court's judgment and various rebellion investigations. I don't think this very inflammatory and message-oriented response will ever help the Yoon Suk Yeol suspect.
[Anchor]
The president has been continuing to file objections.Ma creates an image of a president who fights against this, a president who resists it, and his party's approval rating for the ruling party goes up.On the one hand, there is also an opinion that the investigation of the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit is justified because the results continue to be dismissed. What do you think about this?
[Lee Junwoo]
I don't think so. It's not as if the president is conscious of his supporters and sends any messages or takes legal action. From the beginning, he has already declared that he will consistently engage in all legal disputes without being conscious of his supporters. He said he would take legal responsibility and political responsibility. As a result, it led to impeachment now, and then to detectives, isn't it? Therefore, the president's message or legal action has nothing to do with his approval rating, but the approval rating of the 2030 generation who support the president has risen. Perhaps the 20s and 30s seem to sympathize very much with the current president's declaration of martial law and the opposition party's paralysis of the government's function with representative Lee Jae-myung's huge seat. As soon as the government was inaugurated, three months later, the opposition began to mention impeachment. And then six months later, the first impeachment. There have been 29 impeachment since then. When I looked at it, I impeached him 1.3 times a month. This is enough to paralyze the functioning of the government. Didn't he wield his parliamentary power in the opposition party with a complete determination? You can see it like this. So, I think we should look at it like this, that the 2030 generation sympathizes with this. I think there is something like this about the current high approval rating of the president. a check hearing on representative Lee Jae-myung So you mentioned Xie Xie Xie about China and you mentioned the United States as an occupying force, didn't you? Because of the antipathy to that, the approval rating is rising, and the president is taking a stand to increase his approval rating. Or, I don't think I can say that I am actively responding to legal action.
[Anchor]
On the other hand, President Yoon's continued objections such as arresting pride and, in a way, his strategy of holding out stimulated his supporters and eventually led to court riots such as yesterday and today. Some pointed out this, but what do you think of this part?
[Cho Dae-hyun]
I'm very sorry about that. I think the biggest responsibility for this is with the President of Yoon Suk Yeol. The president of Yoon Suk Yeol called it officialdom. During the month-long government-in-house politics, he wrote letters to protesters outside, and on the last day, he made a video in a very urgent way while the arrest warrant was executed. It was also on the news that it was taken with the cell phone of an administrative officer or a security officer, but it means that he is very focused on sending messages outside. In this way, by continuing to show this message that his actions absolutely refuse to comply with the judicial process, I am also refusing to comply with the judicial process, so please help me out there. It's like this. That's why there's even a situation where you break into the court now.
What's really worrisome is that not long ago, former lawmaker Kim Min's white bone problem was very noisy, but on that day, lawmaker Yoon Sang-hyun even exchanged messages with his supporters and said, "You can do it, you can do it." Didn't you say this? I'll keep helping you because you're going to the U.S. like this. In fact, lawmaker Yoon Sang-hyun cannot move on like this. You have to take legal responsibility later on. It's like inciting protests and such violent acts. At the center of it are very strong messages from President Yoon Suk Yeol and continuous messages. In addition, I think it is a serious problem for some lawmakers who are conscious of the next election and are only engaged in such activities by their own election party politics and their political schedule. Even now, I think it's time to be cautious and to crack down on yourself so that it doesn't lead to such violence.
[Anchor]
Lawmaker Yoon Sang-hyun said, "I did not sympathize with the violence in terms of what lawmaker Yoon Sang-hyun said after that." Are you in the same position on that?
[Cho Dae-hyun]
I'm saying that because the situation is getting harder, but seeing that it's been released, I'm talking about 17 people. The one who first moved on. So that night, before the violence at dawn, didn't 17 people enter and get dragged out? I texted them about them and said that they will be given a discount and will be checked one by one. If saying that it's okay is not to help or encourage violence, I think many people were very encouraged by the message of Representative Yoon Sang-hyun, and those things worked.
[Anchor]
In the midst of this, President Yoon unveiled his position in prison this afternoon. There are comments saying that they are continuously focusing on public opinion. We have entered the so-called prison politics, can we look at it like this?
[Lee Junwoo]
That's too much to look at. Because prison politics may seem like the president is exercising some kind of presidential power even in prison, but the president is currently prosecuted. Aren't you undergoing a trial in the Constitutional Court and also in a criminal trial? If the investigation continues, there will be a trial. In such a situation, the president is currently suspended from his duties, but he is the president. But what about the Democratic Party now? I'm trying to cover up the whole nation by doing martial law on Kakao Talk.
In addition, it was reported yesterday that the government discussed public opinion manipulation comments mobilizing lawmakers or aides in connection with public opinion manipulation. So when the Democratic Party creates fake news and sends out incitement messages like that, does the president have to stand by? The President is the party. Let's go like this as a party, especially Representative Lee Jae-myung, who had a false interview with Kim Man-bae and Shin Hak-rim in the past, actively sent more than 4 million group texts before his presidential election and right before voting to actively participate in fake news and lies. Under these circumstances, why should we remain silent just because President Yoon Suk Yeol is in prison? Should I be defenseless? I don't think so. The minimum expression of position should be guaranteed for the contents to be contested in court and the contents to be contested in the Constitutional Court. I think it's a defense measure.
[Cho Dae-hyun]
I'd like to add a word. Just before I entered the broadcast here, I saw a report that it was a Facebook message from former Supreme Council member Kim Jae-won. I think this is the act of responding to President Yoon Suk Yeol's message politics, and it was very interesting and surprising. Yoon, who is imprisoned despite the current situation, will bring down prisoner Lee Jae-myung. And together I pay tribute to the great crusaders. And I expressed it as a temple. How could this happen? Seeing the judiciary so violated this early morning, the whole nation is angry, worried, and worried about the trauma of violence.
Don't you think the protesters are heading for the Constitutional Court today? How can you express this when you have to watch the news while worrying about it in real time? I think this is how President Yoon Suk Yeol responds to and responds to that because he is engaged in such message politics. It's the present that should be avoided.
[Anchor]
It is true that he made the remarks with this intention, saying that if we look back on what lawmaker Yoon Sang-hyun said just a moment ago, he will be dismissed soon. Let's talk about floor leader Kwon Sung-dong for a moment. Kwon Sung-dong, the floor leader of the party, said, "We cannot hold protesters responsible alone unilaterally. I asked for a fact-finding investigation into police overreaction. What do you think?
[Cho Dae-hyun]
So, do you really have the will to deal with this situation? The person most responsible for the current situation is President Yoon Suk Yeol and President Yoon Suk Yeol, the suspect of civil war, but at the same time, the power of the people to produce such a president must feel a great responsibility. Isn't the power of the people an emergency system called the emergency committee? The party is in a situation where the leadership system has collapsed and a new emergency system has been established. One of the pillars responsible for causing such a situation is the power of the people, and Kwon Sung-dong, the floor leader who is now the two-top in the power of the people, said this, and Kwon Young-se, chairman of the emergency committee, said something similar. Is it really asking us to settle the political situation normally and go this way to make the situation worse, or is it trying not to lose the initiative in the face of the early presidential election because the people's power has already entered the early presidential election? Rather than the party's partisan politics, I think it would be better to end the future of the country and people's anxiety and act like a ruling party in terms of economic stability.
[Anchor]
What do you think of the ruling party's investigation into police overreaction?
[Lee Junwoo]
Before that, I talked about the message of Representative Kim Jae-won earlier. In short, Lee Hae-sik talked about Lee Jae-myung as a priest of God, and Choi Min-hee said he would kill Lee Jae-myung if he moved. On that, the party's position moved on, saying it was the personal opinion of the lawmakers. Same thing. It may be true about Kim Jae-won's remarks, but it's a personal opinion. How can this be the party's overall opinion? I don't think it's right to talk too quietly. I think it's wrong to do this because the police are being damaged unilaterally. Now, there are cases where protesters have been unilaterally damaged by the police.
For example, police were passing by for no reason and kicked a tripod where a camera had been placed by protesters. And another thing, a young police officer pushed an old man over and knocked his head on the ground. And then throw away a middle-aged woman. I knocked him down hard with both arms and threw him away. These things stack up one by one on the spot as the protesters watch all of them. The police are not in front of the protesters to maintain order, but the police first use violence against the protesters. As this perception accumulated, a consensus was formed. So if we're in such a state of excitement now, would the protesters who witnessed it stay still? Shouldn't you be beaten by the police? That's how you feel and everyone gets excited. It is very wrong to unilaterally hold protesters accountable without pointing out the police who provided such a cause. I think it's right to deal with everything fairly.
It is also said that many public interest lawyers have come forward in this regard. There are many people involved in yesterday's protest at Yeongdeungpo Police Station, but public interest lawyers are coming out to give free arguments, and many volunteers are coming out. In any case, there should be no physical conflict or violence. We agree on that.E says that what we are dealing with should be treated fairly.
[Anchor]
Earlier, Chief Cho said that lawmaker Yoon Sang-hyun texted him at the time of the court rampage, saying that he could do this, but he texted me that he would be released soon after the investigation to be exact. We'll correct this part a little bit.
[Cho Dae-hyun]
So what I'm telling you is not that Rep. Yoon Sang-hyun can do that, but that he will actually be released soon, to be exact. I think I said it to the effect that you don't have to worry because I'm going to be released soon. That's what rationalizes these actions and actually encourages them.
[Anchor]
In this regard, Democratic Party Chairman Lee Jae-myung also expressed his position. Let's listen to it firsthand and continue with the conversation.
[Anchor]
Chairman Lee Jae-myung of the Democratic Party only mentioned the riot and directly avoided the arrest of President Yoon. What kind of intentions do you have?
[Cho Dae-hyun]
Well, I can't guess what CEO Lee Jae-myung's personal intentions are. As everyone feels, what was surprising yesterday was the situation in which an arrest warrant was executed for a Yoon Suk Yeol suspect, but violence was rampant in the court that took place right after that time. This situation was really a big concern for us. In that respect, I think the fact that Representative Lee Jae-myung said that today is important, but he is saying that there should be no more violence in the future and that we should move on to a new phase.
[Lee Junwoo]
He talks as if it's someone else's business across the river, as if Lee Jae-myung had nothing to do with the riot. Going back to the cause, there is a problem with the speed of Lee Jae-myung's judicial process. President Yoon Suk Yeol is progressing at a very fast pace in just three or four weeks. Haven't you been dragging on CEO Lee Jae-myung for years? It is very inappropriate for CEO Lee Jae-myung, who provided the cause, to talk as if it were someone else's work. And another thing, CEO Lee Jae-myung is on the 23rd. It's this Thursday. At that time, a trial related to the appeal trial will be held at the Seoul High Court. But what if Representative Lee Jae-myung doesn't mention the president of Yoon Suk Yeol here? Then, isn't it as if Lee Jae-myung decided to look at the case against himself with the Seoul High Court? It has the effect of being misunderstood. Maybe that's why he doesn't mention President Yoon Suk Yeol at all. Whether it's the Western District Court or the Airborne Division. That's why I suspected that he didn't mention it. Another thing is that nearly 40% of the polls say Lee Jae-myung can never do it. That's why I think Lee Jae-myung did not mention the president of Yoon Suk Yeol because he was afraid that the opinion poll that the mention of the president should never be seen as a side effect.
[Anchor]
To move on to the security story, President Yoon was arrested, but the security of the security service continues as he maintains his current status. YTN alone met Kim Sung-hoon, the deputy head of the bodyguard, who was released when the prosecution rejected the arrest warrant in the morning. Let's hear what they said.
[Anchor]
He said he would stay in the detention center 24 hours a day to protect him. I don't think the security agency would have thought of security in the detention center. At what level is security?
[Lee Junwoo]
It's an unprecedented situation, so everything we've done so far... It's our first time meeting them, so we have to respond at that time. a president in a detention center A detention center is a facility where you can't go out or go inside. Nevertheless, receiving the highest level of security in it is still valid under the Kueng Protection Act, so I think the security should go in and give close-up security together.
Also, inside the Seoul Detention Center, you may have overlapping movements or contacting other inmates. There could also be such a problem. Another meal will be served, and of course, that won't happen in the case of the president.Don't you know Ma? So, there may be things like a separate verification from the security service about the president's meal provision. In addition, representative Cho Kuk is currently in the Seoul Detention Center. If Representative Cho Kuk sent a message mocking or inciting the president of Yoon Suk Yeol, an inmate who sympathizes with it may act. Isn't it right for the security service to be close-up in preparation for such a case? Therefore, according to the Security Service Act, I think the security level suitable for the highest level of president should be maintained in consultation with the Ministry of Justice.
[Anchor]
In particular, Deputy Director Kim Sung-hoon made and sang songs for the president along with the charges of blocking the execution of the arrest warrant for President Yoon. There is also a controversy over such private use. The person in charge denies that this is just a stage of celebrating a birthday that can be common among friends, but not at all like this.
[Cho Dae-hyun]
When you talk about friendship between the president and colleagues at work, can the president and the deputy chief of the security service be considered friends or colleagues at work? I don't think it makes sense to have that kind of metaphor
. Apart from the question of whether this is a legal problem, the relationship between the president and his aides and so-called close people should not be a mixture of such personal and public duties. In the past, during the Park Geun Hye presidency, Choi Soon-sil and the public corporation were indistinguishable, leading to the manipulation of state affairs, right? Of course, what we're paying attention to now is that it deals with such a big issue of rebellion, so it's hidden because it deals with the big issue of rebellion created by martial law, but these parts seem to be very unable to distinguish construction. And even though it's peripheral, it's young these days for the MZ generation, but it's the same for any organization, especially the public service.
I've been in public office until recently, but I don't really have a company dinner. If you don't have a company dinner often, it's better to give you a coupon. That's true, but why don't we have a party and make a song and do this for our boss? Isn't it really common to say that it gives you goosebumps? It's a very shameful thing that people close to the most powerful part of the Republic of Korea did this before the legal matter.
[Anchor]
The political battle continues to be a special prosecutor. The revision of the Insurrection Special Prosecutor Act led by the opposition party was passed by the National Assembly, and although the Democratic Party said it has accepted a large number of demands for the people's power, the people's power continues to be unconstitutional and a hasty special prosecutor.
[Lee Junwoo]
That's right. You shouldn't have put the current foreign exchange crime in the first place. However, it is the same as the last time when you look at the foreign exchange crime exclusion right before the plenary session of the National Assembly after proposing it now. Last time, didn't you commit rebellion while filing an impeachment motion, but later after going to the Constitutional Court, you cleared yourself of rebellion again? I don't know what the hell you're doing to put and take out the legal agenda in this way. There is no respect for the law or the Constitution. I have no choice but to tell you that I'm doing it in a very partisan way. In particular, it is currently available so that the general public, including members of the People's Power, can investigate a wide range of investigation targets. I would also like to say that I am opposed to that because too broad an investigation is rather causing inconvenience to the people.
[Anchor]
I think the Democratic Party of Korea listened to some of the things that the ruling party demanded, such as the exclusion of foreign exchange crimes, when the independent counsel agreed, but do you expect additional votes?
[Cho Dae-hyun]
Well, strategically, if you look at the problem of whether you do it or not while calculating additional departure votes, there are criticisms of the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit from the Yoon Suk Yeol, but the same is true of the Democratic Party. In that sense, haven't many people watched not only about the special prosecutor, but also in the process of executing a warrant? If you look at it that way, I'm talking about the special prosecutor as a way to solve such a problem. In any case, the ruling and opposition parties agreed to gather it as a special prosecutor. Since Acting President Choi Sang-mok has been demanding the agreement between the ruling and opposition parties and the resolution of unconstitutionality, in fact, isn't the core of the resolution of unconstitutionality and the agreement between the ruling and opposition parties the unconstitutionality of the so-called recommendation? If you look at it like that, I've actually solved that part.
After having a peripheral problem and this problem has been solved, if we talk about another problem, we can't proceed. If you look at it that way, I know that in the case of a re-decision, unlike the first decision, it is probably an anonymous vote. If you look at it that way, wouldn't you make a reasonable judgment within the power of the people? It's really not for the Democrats to make this situation even more uncertain right now. I think we should make a reasonable decision because it's not for the Democratic Party, but for the power of the Democratic Party, the people, the whole people, and the entire political community.
[Anchor]
However, even if this is passed right away and an independent counsel is set up right now, it will take about 20 days before the launch of the special prosecutor's office, so wouldn't the prosecution have already indicted President Yoon by then? That's why there are criticisms that the special prosecutor is too late.
[Lee Junwoo]
That's right. That's why the Special Prosecutor Act is very political. It has already entered a state where a special prosecutor is not needed. Currently, the Minister of National Defense, the Chief of Army Staff, the commander of the defense command, and the Commissioner of the National Police Agency are all arrested and charged. Who else are you investigating? When I asked him, he asked him like this during negotiations, and he said that the Democratic Party does this. It is said that investigations into junior officers and non-commissioned officers who worked for them are needed, and most of them are young people. It is the purpose of the National Assembly's political use of this issue by dealing with it, and to shame the president by calling him to the National Assembly. There is nothing but this. Therefore, I think it is right for Acting President Choi Sang-mok to exercise his right to demand reconsideration on this.
[Anchor]
It's a story after a confinement pride.Ma, do you think there is a difference from the special prosecutor if the prosecution even indicts the president?
[Lee Junwoo]
That's right when you're arrested and prosecuted. It has to go regardless of the special prosecutor, and the problem of the special prosecutor is that the special prosecutor takes all the case records investigated by the prosecution, police, and the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit. So what's new if the special prosecutor takes this from what the prosecution, police, and airborne offices are doing now? It's already been all stamped on the record. In my view, isn't the president's right to object at the Constitutional Court? I think it's for that purpose to call the president to the National Assembly for political purposes in order to interfere with the right to object or to greatly neutralize the right to object.
[Anchor]
What do you think, Mr. Cho?
[Cho Dae-hyun]
This problem continues to be a problem because the organization called the prosecution has been causing distrust in the people. Isn't that why you created an agency called the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit and made some of the investigative powers independent? After that, the special prosecutor should have launched the investigation as soon as possible and made efforts to eliminate such things as duplication and confusion in the investigation.
In this regard, the ruling party should have actively conducted a special prosecution earlier, but the ruling and opposition parties agree that the special prosecution bill is currently in place. The ruling party was almost accepted as it originally claimed. If you look at it that way, it would be nice if the investigation would be carried out after the special prosecution was launched and then the special prosecution would go through this process, but at this time, the prosecution could actually prosecute and move on to the special prosecution as Lee Joon-woo said. Aren't you going to continue the first and second trials after the prosecution as well as the prosecution? And it's necessary to maintain the prosecution.
Of course, this is not to say that the special prosecutor will be launched and the first and second trials will continue. People's anxiety if you look at it that way. As I said earlier, the public distrust of the prosecution is very high. Considering these things, I think it would be right for this investigation to launch an independent counsel quickly to prosecute the rest of the schedule by the independent counsel or even proceed with the post-indictment process.
[Lee Junwoo]
The president has only one body, including the prosecution, the police, the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit, the Constitutional Court, and the independent counsel. If the National Assembly even conducts a special investigation, this can be more counterproductive in the eyes of the public. In order to give this perception that both sides are faithfully being tried fairly by law, it is very wrong to forcefully make all the forms of trials and forcefully call the president, I think.
[Cho Dae-hyun]
If the independent counsel is launched, it will be transferred to the independent counsel, and as Lee said, it will be more considerate of the suspect because it will be done by the independent counsel, not by several places.
[Anchor]
Even if it is passed, wouldn't Acting President Choi Sang-mok veto it in the National Assembly?
[Cho Dae-hyun]
from what we have done so far And there are two things that acting Choi Sang-mok said. One is for the ruling and opposition parties to come to an agreement. And the other is unconstitutionality, unconstitutionality of recommendations. Remove the unconstitutionality. In fact, as I said earlier, one of the reasons why the ruling and opposition parties did not agree is because of the authority to recommend. But didn't you solve this part? And besides that, most of the investigation scope, manpower, and duration are what the ruling party wants. I think it's almost the same.
If so, is there any justification for the acting Choi Sang-mok to reject it when he handed it back over to the acting Choi Sang-mok? If you give the reason that the ruling and opposition parties have not reached an agreement even in this situation, it will probably be accepted that it should not be about an agreement between the ruling and opposition parties, but should do as the ruling party wishes. Therefore, there is a possibility that Choi will reject it if he only sees it on the surface, but I think he should accept it if he sees it in that way.
[Anchor]
Now let's change the story and talk about the president and the ruling party. Do you think the president and the ruling party will maintain the same stance even if the prosecution's investigation begins and the Constitutional Court's impeachment trial gains momentum? Or do you think you'll be concerned about the early presidential election?
[Lee Junwoo]
I think it's very early to talk about the early presidential election. Isn't it either cited or rejected when the Constitutional Court hasn't concluded? Not only is it very inappropriate to mention the early presidential election when it is not concluded, but the support of the president and the people is very high. Rather, it is said that the party's approval rating has surpassed that of the Democratic Party. Perhaps the president's approval rating will exceed 50 percent this week. As such prospects are being made, the president's preparation for an early presidential election by making a prediction as if the impeachment citation was confirmed in this situation could bring about a huge backlash. Therefore, there will probably be no preparation for the early presidential election or any such move, I think so.
[Anchor]
However, according to the results of the poll, the theory of regime change is superior to the theory of regime maintenance, but the support of the Democratic Party and the people has reversed. How should I interpret this part?
[Cho Dae-hyun]
In this regard, I think there should be various self-reflection and reflection from the standpoint of the Democratic Party. Of course, very few surveys are not without problems with sampling, as some say. So I think it'll probably be a legal issue as well.
[Anchor]
So do you think the conservatives are more oversampled?
[Cho Dae-hyun]
Yes, there is no such thing. Overall, however, it's important to see how many to what polls show, but more importantly, it's the tendency of what we often say is a trend. There was clearly a lot of detachment from the Democratic Party. I was very disappointed in the Democratic Party. You can see these things. There are many reasons for that, but I think so.
Expectations for the power of the people have already disappeared at this stage. The Democratic Party of Korea has a majority and has never expected the Democratic Party of Korea in such an unprecedented situation. If so, I think it reflects how much the Democratic Party has demonstrated in the process since December 3rd, how much has it demonstrated its political ability, how much it has demonstrated, and how much it has been able to persuade and lead the government and the ruling party to solve the problem, sometimes making concessions and doing so.
Isn't the recommendation of the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court just out now for the special prosecution? The people are disappointed as to why they couldn't solve the problem like this. So even now, I think this is a warning from the Democratic Party, so I think we should go so that the Democratic Party can analyze the issue well and win the hearts of the people again.
[Anchor]
We'll stop listening to you two today. So far, we have been with Lee Joon-woo, a member of the Special Committee on People's Power Media, and Cho Dae-hyun, former head of the Office of the Prime Minister.
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